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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#821

Post by rsoto2 »

bawolff wrote: post #327
blitz_skull wrote: post #282

What's the ICJ's actual ability to enforce this? "Orders" sounds like they have some sort of weight to throw around if Israel doesn't comply, but I'm not familiar with the ICJ or what possible consequences could arise if Israel simply decided it was going to do what it wanted.

In theory i think they are supposed to ask the security council to step in if the order is ignored. Which would be unlikely to do anything, so nothing. I think its likely israel will comply. The order is pretty weak and mostly stuff israel already claims to be doing. It wouldn't be worth the PR hassle to ignore it.

They have already said they will continue their operation in Gaza, _despite_ the ICJ

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#822

Post by rsoto2 »

w0mbat wrote: post #600

The ruling also ordered Hamas to release all hostages, and Hamas has previously claimed they would abide by any ruling of the court. I find it unlikely though that they will comply.

Palestine is considered occupied territory and is not a part of the UN

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#824

Post by samirillian »

mderazon wrote: post #630
anon84873628 wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? And then everyone who wants peace invests lots of money and expertise over a long time to build a modern, prosperous, stable Palestinian society, despite whatever setbacks, attacks, and sabotage occur from within and without. The only way to have peace is to give people a better option than becoming terrorists.

This is looking at the conflict from western eyes. Religious fundamentalists don't think like that

I don't think it's too Western-centric to imagine that Palestinians want freedom, which is a universal human desire. Freedom means statehood and self-governance.

Oppression is fertile soil for religious fundamentalists, and radicals of every stripe.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#825

Post by mjfl »

mrangle wrote: post #718

The primary problem was always that there are too many parties who have an interest in the existence of Hamas. Put differently, there are too many parties with an interest in using the Palestinians as pawns. Leaving aside the views of any specific Palestinian. As no serious person can dispute the ease of radicalizing destitute people without educations and with PTSD. As long as this is the case, the Palestinians, on…

“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” - Benjamin Netanyahu

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/benjam...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#826

Post by emmelaich »

int_19h wrote: post #750
xdennis wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When Brits were firebombing German cities, that had very little to do with freeing anyone from anything. Even at the time it was recognized by many as an act of revenge, and it's hard to not take the same impression from how Israel is conducting itself in Gaza, especially given some telling remarks from Israeli leadership.

Was it not? The war was not over and so no-one was freed, yet.

Regarding Dresden, from wikipedia...

> United States Air Force reports, declassified decades later, noted as a major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories and 50,000 workers in support of the continued Nazi German war effort

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#828

Post by fortran77 »

Qem wrote: post #769
throwaway421967 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the comment that I replied to was flagged, I'm posting this here because it is simply a statement of facts. - Judge Barak's numbers on civilian deaths on 7th october are simply wrong and could've been easily checked. 766 civilians were killed, 1200 was the total number of deaths (including armed forces). - Israel's own numbers say "2 civilians killed for every one militant"[1], that's 66% in the Gaza offensive.…

Regarding the people that died on October 7, one important detail is evidence surfaced it appears a sizeable fraction was killed due to Israeli military attacking militants and hostages without distinction, to avoid capture, following the so called Hannibal directive: https://thecradle.co/articles/israeli-army-ordered-mass-hann... https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/25/israels-october-7-propaga... https://en.m.wikipedia.…

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#829

Post by peterashford »

pgeorgi wrote: post #474
locallost wrote: post #466

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

People said Apartheid South Africa couldn't end without a bloodbath. People said peace in Northern Ireland was impossible. People thought the Cold War would never end. Impossible things are impossible until they aren't. I'm not saying that any of these things are easy - they clearly are not. But history shows us again and again that change is possible when people work towards it in good faith. From a practical point of view, I think that the international community needs to be allowed to help - both to maintain the peace and broker a way forward. The status quo will not reach peace. Israel will never have peace and security until Palestine has peace and security.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#830

Post by wahnfrieden »

brighteyes wrote: post #813
shakil wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this flagged/down voted? Its just a plain statement of fact, supported by credible sources and references. Here's some more references if people think this didn't happen. The IDF attacked and fired on the Nova festival goers with Apache helicopters [1], an Israeli tank fired shells at Kibbutz Be'eri killing hostages and children, and stories of eight babies killed at the kibbutz have been proven to be false, a…

It is downvoted because it said "sizable fraction", which is a conspiracy theory. It is true that there were a few incidents, but they only account for a very small fraction of the death toll.

“A few… A very small fraction” is a conspiracy theory actually
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