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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#731
post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7? This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

Israel must face the reality that is an apartheid state that exists on occupied land. There is no solution until that happens. Just like apartheid South Africa was dismantled, Israel has to face the same fate or forever be locked into warfare and oppressing Palestinians.

This is a good summary of Islamic radicalization propaganda that seeks to use Palestinian civilians as pawns, with no regard for them. It is this narrative that keeps the Palestinains in prison.

The counterpoint is that you "must" face the reality that this is never going to happen, and that asserting that it will or should is equivalent to damning the Palestinians to the existence that they currently occupy.

Greater Islam does not have an army that can stand against the West, let alone do the Palestinians. All that they have are manipulated terrorists whose actions always cause much more destruction on their side than the inverse.

So I say again, the only realistic and humane view is to take your oppopsite position, recognize the immovable force, and actually attempt to save Palestinian lives via deradicalization and a relocation campaign.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#732
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, not much. Gaza is a good place to start. China wants more influence in the Middle East, and already owns or operates a large number of ports outside China.[1] Israel blockades the existing ports of Gaza. A China-run port in Gaza, protected by the PLAN, is a possibility. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/china-...

> Gaza is a good place to start. This made me chuckle :-) "Let's dip our toes into solving international conflicts with an easy one, like the Israeli / Palestine conflict!"

It's laughable, but if China solved this problem they'd be voted the world's cop over the USA overnight

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then? And then everyone who wants peace invests lots of money and expertise over a long time to build a modern, prosperous, stable Palestinian society, despite whatever setbacks, attacks, and sabotage occur from within and without. The only way to have peace is to give people a better option than becoming terrorists.

This is looking at the conflict from western eyes. Religious fundamentalists don't think like that

All major conflicts and wars are fundamentally economic and have been so throughout history

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#734

Glad to see Israel face some responsibility for its horrific acts against civilians. > The court ruled that Israel must do all it can to prevent genocide, including refraining from killing Palestinians or causing harm to them Sounds like a ceasefire to me. How else would they do this? Definitely not with any of the military tactics Israel is currently using.

When the UN told the US not to go to war with Irak, they just ignored it. Those bodies have zero power and countries that want to massacre will kill no matter what.

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#735
post #476

My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246 Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important. Quote: "Westerners must ope…

I think the premise of "the law of retaliation is a moral dead end" is just a high minded pathway to endless violence and anarchy.

... and on the other pathway, there's no fight because everyone's already dead. We fight because we're alive. It's just how life goes.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#736
post #680
post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't have to hide being anti-Israel. It's fine. You can be anti-Uganda, anti-France. Be anti-whatever country you like.

Sure, but I don't think is right to use their moderation powers to bend the guideline of this forum to push those views. Quote: > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, [...]. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

If you think dang is trying to steer the conversation in an anti-israel direction, you are completely removed from reality. I've never seen dang operate in any controversial or bad faith way on this site. He's just trying to maintain the quality of the discourse.

Are we allowed to discuss the objective facts on the ground in Gaza or are those facts anti-semitic?

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#737
post #36

The actual rulings can be found at https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... and a summary is: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192... Dissents etc can be found in the case page: https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192 - in particular the opinion of Judge Aharon Barak, the Israeli ad-hoc Judge (a peculiarity of the ICJ is that each side gets to add a judge, but it doesn't have m…

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Please don't post like this. It's against the intention of this site and especially against the intended spirit I tried to describe at the top of the thread.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#738
post #263

Hi All, I am a combat soldier and commander in the IDF currently fighting in Gaza. We are not committing any genocide. The give away for Genocide is that there are mass graves, which in Gaza there are not. Yes there is collateral damage because Hamas uses civilians as human shields, so we have no choice but to kill them too, but we do not specifically target them. We risk ourselves and our soldiers to ensure that the…

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Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas is the ruling party/government of Gaza.

De facto, not de jure. Hamas is not a signee of genocide convention, so ICJ has no jurisdiction over them.

extremely pedantic take. there is no actual leadership (as we know it in the rest of the world) in palestine/gaza.

this is all playing house. a real entity (like the US, UK, Australia, Urugay etc do) is participating in stuff like this... would you still hold the Taliban to the same standard? They are running Afghanistan but ... are they the real deal? No, lol.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

#740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general when there is an accusation of genocide, is a statement of denial from a soldier of the accused side considered good evidence?

The whole his post feel so righteous and cliche prpaganda, I am almost feeling bad for him.

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