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NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

nytimes.com

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Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#81

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

MR4D wrote: post #80
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

software is naturally authoritarian.

Is is though? Maybe that's just a reflection of the organizations that have created said software.

yes, because it allows centralized control and that control is absolute.

Whether an organization decides to lock things down or not is a different discussion, but software itself is absolutely authoritarian in nature.

And the scary part is that it's absolute. If you have employees who shouldn't be doing a thing you make it company policy, but with software you flat out enforce it.

Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#83

Post by geraldhh »

bawolff wrote: post #70
geraldhh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one step further: the problem is the existence of the data as in, pii should be a massive liability and everyone should be incentivized to avoid collecting it

Making it illegal to sell would go a long way in that direction.

not as much as it would strengthen black markets

Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#84

Post by [deleted] »

aetch wrote: post #65
geraldhh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one step further: the problem is the existence of the data as in, pii should be a massive liability and everyone should be incentivized to avoid collecting it

I’ve got news, lots of fellow HN readers support this data collection through jobs called the ad / marketing industry.

[deleted]

Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#85

Post by geraldhh »

aetch wrote: post #65
geraldhh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one step further: the problem is the existence of the data as in, pii should be a massive liability and everyone should be incentivized to avoid collecting it

I’ve got news, lots of fellow HN readers support this data collection through jobs called the ad / marketing industry.

barely news, thou most industries profit from consumer insight in some way

Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#87

Post by janalsncm »

bawolff wrote: post #36

It seems like the problem is that the information is for sale at all. I generally think warrants should be needed when police (or i guess spies) do something that an ordinary citizen wouldn't be allowed to do. If the info is available for purchase by anyone, then i don't think warrants should be needed.

This makes it seem as if the NSA would stop spying on Americans if the data wasn’t available on the open market. If we just change our data privacy laws! Historically, the NSA doesn’t care whether they get the info off the open market or from in-house infrastructure. They’re probably doing both now.

The problem isn’t this particular method they happen to be using today. The problem is that the NSA and the 4th Amendment are often in conflict, and the NSA wins because there’s no consequences for violating it.

Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#89

Post by colinng »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #81
MR4D wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is is though? Maybe that's just a reflection of the organizations that have created said software.

yes, because it allows centralized control and that control is absolute. Whether an organization decides to lock things down or not is a different discussion, but software itself is absolutely authoritarian in nature. And the scary part is that it's absolute. If you have employees who shouldn't be doing a thing you make it company policy, but with software you flat out enforce it.

Software has its absolutes - and those are often good things. Security, ability for backup, redundancy, scalability. We value these things.

Whether those attributes are applied toward authoritarianism or freedom is largely up to the developer and the backers and users.

And over time we may have started with systems that are centralized because our abilities were young at the time, but distributed systems are very popular and often the goal. One example is version control systems: all the systems prior to Git/Mercurial and those after.

With social networks, the network effects are dominant, but I am hopeful that distributed systems will eventually dominate.

Re: NSA Buys Americans' Internet Data Without Warrants, Unclassified Letter Says

#90

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

colinng wrote: post #89
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, because it allows centralized control and that control is absolute. Whether an organization decides to lock things down or not is a different discussion, but software itself is absolutely authoritarian in nature. And the scary part is that it's absolute. If you have employees who shouldn't be doing a thing you make it company policy, but with software you flat out enforce it.

Software has its absolutes - and those are often good things. Security, ability for backup, redundancy, scalability. We value these things. Whether those attributes are applied toward authoritarianism or freedom is largely up to the developer and the backers and users. And over time we may have started with systems that are centralized because our abilities were young at the time, but distributed systems are very pop…

> Whether those attributes are applied toward authoritarianism or freedom is largely up to the developer and the backers and users.

That they can be applied at all makes software authoritarian in nature.

software enables something we've never truly had, which is automated, effective force at a distance.

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