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We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

theatlantic.com

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Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#61

Post by zokier »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #18
Dalewyn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be brutally honest: Job is (was?) right. To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. I see something similar with touchscreens too: Most people don't know much beyond pinch to zoom. Any gestures or input involving 3 fingers or more is literal pig latin. Simplifying the m…

> To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. This was the reason why Microsoft introduced Minesweeper to Windows 3.1: > https://web.archive.org/web/20190925214943/https://mentalflo... "Decades later, in 1992, the Microsoft version Minesweeper was introduced to Windows 3.1—…

This WaPo article might better source:

> Microsoft originally put Solitaire into Windows to soothe people intimidated by the operating system, according to Duzan. It gave them something familiar and fun to do with their computer while it also taught them how to use a mouse. Not surprisingly, for years Solitaire was the most-used application for Windows, Microsoft officials say.

> Minesweeper got in because, at the time Windows 3.1 was released in 1992, it was the favorite game of everybody involved in creating that software, including overlord Gates.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1994/03/09/...

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#62

Post by shrimp_emoji »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #60
zokier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reducing required operator skill level and training needed is absolutely major driver in commercial/industrial equipment development, and has been throughout the industrial era. If production line is able to specify just one standardized cutting disk, even if suboptimal otherwise, instead of requiring worker to choose between multiple ones, then it definitely can happen. Its very romanticized view to think that the w…

> Reducing required operator skill level and training needed is absolutely major driver in commercial/industrial equipment development No, it is an imperative driven by capitalism. Employees don't want this. Tool users don't want this (because as you note, if the blade can cut everything it likely doesn't cut anything very well). The motivation for the kind of tool development you're referring to is not the developme…

> if the blade can cut everything it likely doesn't cut anything very well

Haha. Sounds like Java/C#/Go. All corporate (Oracle/Microsoft/Google) languages. Coincidence? ;p

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#64

Post by ghaff »

bdcravens wrote: post #50
ghaff wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And honestly the file cabinet metaphor probably doesn't go over very well either because that doesn't mostly apply today either.

Good point. For instance, object storage at first glance looks like the file cabinet, but that abstraction isn't entirely correct.

The historical situation was that the file system/file cabinet/library classification was that you had some sort of hierarchy in which the physical object was in one and only one location. And you had to locate it within its unique position in that hierarchy.

Object store on AWS, say, sort of looks like that in that AWS essentially presents it as a filesystem structure by default but that's mostly hiding the actual structure.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#66

Post by eternityforest »

Dalewyn wrote: post #10
SoftTalker wrote: post #3

The reason the original Macintosh mouse had only one button: so users would not need to remember which one to click. That was a Jobs mandate.

To be brutally honest: Job is (was?) right. To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. I see something similar with touchscreens too: Most people don't know much beyond pinch to zoom. Any gestures or input involving 3 fingers or more is literal pig latin. Simplifying the m…

Right click is fine, but I prefer much completely loathe gesture UI.

If I had to guess, I've probably lost all progress on something around 30 times just from pull to refresh. I'm not even sure how some of these features are legal without any kind of toggle... I can't imagine they're great for anyone with movement disorders.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#67

Post by fulladder »

adrian_b wrote: post #56
Dalewyn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be brutally honest: Job is (was?) right. To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. I see something similar with touchscreens too: Most people don't know much beyond pinch to zoom. Any gestures or input involving 3 fingers or more is literal pig latin. Simplifying the m…

When I was still using an Apple computer, many years ago, the one-button mouse was what I hated the most. I even despised the two-button Microsoft mouse. Both were much worse than a three-button mouse, when the buttons were used cleverly by the user interface. The replacement of the third button with the scroll wheel has started for me the process of finding alternatives for a mouse and eventually abandoning its use.…

> Most people have never seen a user interface that uses properly all the three buttons of a mouse

Bring back IRIX. Those guys had everything figured out and it worked great.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#68

Post by mikewarot »

gumby wrote: post #34

I could have written this article in 1998 but complaining that "we've" forgotten how to use the card punch. Instead humanity uses supercomputers now.

Indeed, I keep a virtual VAX 11/780 in my pocket for old times sake. It's running OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V7.2, and you can telnet into it. 8)

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#69

Post by tomjen3 »

>Many people had a hard time moving and clicking at the same time, and “double-clicking” was a skill one had to learn

There is never any reason to bother worrying about double clicking. It is just a shortcut to select the default interaction option, which is equally available by selecting the interaction option (usually the right mouse button) and choosing it from there.

In fact the great part of the mouse is how much discovery it enables: you can move the mouse over any element of the screen and see how you can interact with it based on which icon is shown. If you don't know what you can do with a given item, you can right click it and get a menu list.

Apple famousely only had one mouse button, and options where shown when you clicked the option button. If Windows had something similar, do you think people would have realised it could also be used when dragging? I still remember when the group I was in realized you could right-drag things and get a useful menu when you did. I can't remember whether we were CS students at the time or had graduated.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#70

Post by oliwarner »

poisonborz wrote: post #55
dromio wrote: post #4

What is this article even trying to say? Clickbait title but the whole thing is about using a mouse? Yeah, interfaces are evolving. Most of the populace use a computer not for using's sake, but to accomplish a goal. Touchscreens are great for information consumption and free-form entry. Keyboards are good for text production. What is a mouse good for other than manipulating 2d objects?

I'm strongly biased against the "neckbeard" stance of keyboard superiority. GUIs evolved for a reason. Keyboard-only controls require a lot of memorisation, are less intuitively learned (besides a slim portion of OS specific traditions), muscle memory becomes tied to the hardware more strongly (layout and feel). Mouse allows to quickly point in a complex UI where elements visually describe themselves. Thumbsticks and…

Why are we comparing keyboard-only software though? Keyboard shortcuts are super effective in software that allows both.

Think of complex editors like Office apps or Photoshop. You can do the same things with both input methods but learning keyboard shortcuts makes each operation about five times quicker.

GUIs aren't immune to muscle-memory rigidity.

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