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We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

theatlantic.com

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Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#31

Post by aleph_minus_one »

esafak wrote: post #20
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. This was the reason why Microsoft introduced Minesweeper to Windows 3.1: > https://web.archive.org/web/20190925214943/https://mentalflo... "Decades later, in 1992, the Microsoft version Minesweeper was introduced to Windows 3.1—…

That is a great theory, but where is the proof? I've read the article.

Read the whole article. Similar "coincidences" also exist for the other Windows games.

On the other hand: if you do consider these coincidences to be spurious, I won't urge you to change your opinion. Instead I give a famous quote from the movie Matrix:

"This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes… Remember, all I’m offering is the truth, nothing more…"

(quoted from https://www.matrixfans.net/movies/the-matrix/transcript/)

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#32

Post by skyyler »

a_gnostic wrote: post #14
dromio wrote: post #4

What is this article even trying to say? Clickbait title but the whole thing is about using a mouse? Yeah, interfaces are evolving. Most of the populace use a computer not for using's sake, but to accomplish a goal. Touchscreens are great for information consumption and free-form entry. Keyboards are good for text production. What is a mouse good for other than manipulating 2d objects?

3D PC gaming? Kb/mouse > game pad > touch screen

I still think the trackball should have taken off for FPS games.

Huge flicks and fine precision on the same device without a dpi switch...

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#36

Post by jkubicek »

Dalewyn wrote: post #10
SoftTalker wrote: post #3

The reason the original Macintosh mouse had only one button: so users would not need to remember which one to click. That was a Jobs mandate.

To be brutally honest: Job is (was?) right. To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. I see something similar with touchscreens too: Most people don't know much beyond pinch to zoom. Any gestures or input involving 3 fingers or more is literal pig latin. Simplifying the m…

Jobs is still right!

I switched to OS X in 2006 or so and have never enabled right-clicking on any of my mice (with the exception of the occasional game that requires a right-click action).

For casual pointing, clicking, dragging, the one-button mouse does exactly what I want and nothing more. For more advanced mouse gymnastics, my left hand is usually hovering over Control/Command/Alt/Shift. I feel like I've got the best of both worlds.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#37

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

Dalewyn wrote: post #10
SoftTalker wrote: post #3

The reason the original Macintosh mouse had only one button: so users would not need to remember which one to click. That was a Jobs mandate.

To be brutally honest: Job is (was?) right. To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. I see something similar with touchscreens too: Most people don't know much beyond pinch to zoom. Any gestures or input involving 3 fingers or more is literal pig latin. Simplifying the m…

Jobs was wrong. Not just a bit wrong, totally wrong.

Computers are tools. Do you see grinder manufacturers say "we only need one type of disk, because people should not have to remember whether they need a diamond blade for masonry or a metal cutting one?" You do not.

There is a frame in which Jobs is correct - the frame in which computers are not tools, but devices intended for the passive consumption of content produced by others. A frame in which tool using never requires skill acquisition (a total inversion of tool use among (at least) humans for (at least) 10's of thousands of years.

No, he was wrong, and if he was right, I refuse to live in that version of the world.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#38

Post by Dalewyn »

bogwog wrote: post #24
zabzonk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i remember teaching people about hierarchical file systems in the early 1990s - so no not much has changed.

Well, not knowing about this in the 90s was reasonable. Not knowing about it today is a failure somewhere in our education system/society/whatever.

I argue it's a failure to continue teaching something that humans do not and will not understand, and arguably also do not want in the first place.

Computers for most people are just another household appliance or tool of their trade. They use computers to achieve certain tasks and they don't have time nor interest to figure out the details of how. They want the results, not the process.

Abstraction of the file system is a step in the right direction, even if it rustles the jimmies of nerds and beards everywhere.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#39

Post by karaterobot »

We've (as a society, probably not many people in this thread) somewhat shifted away from using a particular interface pattern, which is different than forgetting how to use computers. That's not too big of a deal; usage changes.

The thing that makes me feel less confident about the future is that it seems like fewer even people want to know how computers work, even though they mediate their lives through them. There was a generation or two of people who had the opportunity to understand computers, because they were cheap enough to get access to them, and they were open enough (in every sense) to actually be tinkered with.

I don't necessarily believe we're living through a civilization-wide decline of the post-Western Roman Empire variety, because I'm not even sure what that means in a globally connected world. But there are localized areas and domains where it seems like it is, just like there are certain domains where it may seem like the opposite is happening.

Re: We've Forgotten How to Use Computers

#40

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

jwells89 wrote: post #15
Dalewyn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be brutally honest: Job is (was?) right. To this day I see most people do not understand right-clicking, and why should they? Context menus are not in-your-face obvious, let alone right-click dragging and other esoteric maneuvers. I see something similar with touchscreens too: Most people don't know much beyond pinch to zoom. Any gestures or input involving 3 fingers or more is literal pig latin. Simplifying the m…

I think that the Mac convention of control-clicking to open context menus, introduced somewhere around Mac OS 8, is easier to remember for the average person than right-clicking is. In my experience people generally grasp conditionals like chording better than visually identical buttons behaving arbitrarily differently.

> "visually identical buttons"

uh, except for their physical placement and accessibility with a given digit, sure.

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