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Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

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Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#121

The "All-Web" paradigm is coming, folks. And it really doesn't matter how much you love your iPhone, or your Android, or Windows phone. Native apps are toast, in the long run. Your data is moving to the cloud -- your pictures, your music, your movies, and every document you write. It's all going up there, and local hard drives will be history within 3 years. And what that means is ALL software is heading there too. N…

Written like someone who has never experienced 3rd world Internet.

Or who has never experienced the bill-shock nightmare that is international data roaming. Always on is nice if you live in a city with good coverage and you can afford the bill.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#122

The "All-Web" paradigm is coming, folks. And it really doesn't matter how much you love your iPhone, or your Android, or Windows phone. Native apps are toast, in the long run. Your data is moving to the cloud -- your pictures, your music, your movies, and every document you write. It's all going up there, and local hard drives will be history within 3 years. And what that means is ALL software is heading there too. N…

Not in most of America. Maybe the Valley or NYC. But in places like Florida, where Comcast (the biggest carrier) drops when thunderstorm roll by good luck.

And business... pushing all your data to the cloud is a mistake. For many reasons such as; security. Look there is no way I'm putting sensitive data, like accounting, patient information, (etc) in the cloud. It's just not worth the risk or the lawsuit.

Also, I know a guy who owns a gym. Was talked into a "hosted cash register". BIG MISTAKE. After the install, a week later early morning storm rolls in from the ocean. His power flips (a common thing in South Florida). But his Comcast never came back online. He was down (and out of business) for 4 hours. Personally though, I enjoyed hearing his plight. He's a cheap sob.

Some of you might say, that is what he deserves for relying on Comcast. Fine. But what small business you know it gonna go through the expense of a T1/3 or fiber? That $29.99 a month cash register just became $300+ a month. Lovely.

My point: out in the real world (in America) the infrastructure is barely stable. Until the carries seriouslly invest (and I doubt they ever will since they only provide exactly what they have too - I don't even want to get started on our TERRIBLE cell service in this country) in their networks, the "cloud" will be a site you share pictures of your dog.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#123
post #120

The most interesting thing to me about each of these little episodes is how Linus, by creating the brilliant Linux kernel, is lauded as a sort-of-oracle when giving his opinion about very non-kernel things. I quite like the simple, opinionated approach to Gnome and Unity but my opinion (and others who may agree with me) matters somehow less because I didn't create this great thing that has nothing to do with UI desig…

It's probably also because we find him 'interesting' (whatever that means). I give my opinion too but it doesn't really matter. :)

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#124
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The year of Linux on the desktop already happened a few years ago. I recently fixed a friend's PC by installing Ubuntu on it. Everything worked out of the box - sound, flash, games. All I had to do was adjust the audio input levels. The only reason everyone else isn't using it is politics (in particular, shoddy marketing by companies like Ubuntu, Microsoft's constant attacks on organisations which use OSS, Microsoft'…

"the year of Linux on the desktop" is not the year in which installing Linux actually works for the first time ( gasp ). I installed Redhat on machines in 2002 where things worked, too. "Linux on the desktop" is about Linux taking a significant market share of desktop installations. The fact of the matter is that Linux is confusing to users ('distributions'? 'desktop environments'? and that's just the start), there i…

>The fact of the matter is that Linux is confusing to users ('distributions'? 'desktop environments'? and that's just the start)

I was doing this for a very non-technical user. All I said was that Ubuntu was like Windows but free. Nothing confusing about that (from their reaction).

>there is very little software for it (relative to what is available for Windows)

Yes and no. Games are a big problem. For most tasks that most users perform, there's a web browser, email client and an office suite. Applications moving to the web only helps with this. Bespoke software which manages a warehouse's stock we don't really care about in this context.

>a moving target (both for users and developers - radical changes in UI from one year to the next, libraries that aren't ABI stable for a year let alone 2 decades)

I agree. Distributions should take more care with this or desktop environment developers should call their new DE something completely different and not make the look like a replacement but rather a competitor. Then again, installing an LTS release should keep a person happy for a couple of years. After that, if they're not a power user, there may be little to no benefit in upgrading to the newest release.

>it's too hard (approaching impossible) to make real money from Linux software.

Tell that to: Sun (hah, great example), RedHat, Google, Apple, the countless software agencies developing on an OSS stack, all the businesses in the world running on a network backbone mostly composed of open software and all the research projects using fancy supercomputers running on Linux. Almost everyone uses Linux in one way or another and almost everyone makes money. Redhat is proof that you can directly use Linux to build a billion dollar business. It's a young business model, but it works well.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#125
I think a lot of people are missing the point of what Linus is saying somewhat.

He's really just addressing the elephant in the room by saying that as of yet the whole open source desktop mess has failed to produce anything that looks like a compelling , easy to use desktop.

If Google can produce a Linux based operating system that addresses the needs of casual users and power users/technophiles (like Linus) and get it on enough hardware (i.e not just netbooks but "serious" desktops as well) then they can (combined with android) simply eat everyone elses lunch.

What is not so important necessarily is whether or not local storage or local apps will "go away" but that Google understands that a modern OS needs to treat "the cloud", i.e webapps , online storage , social networks as first class citizens inside the OS. This is a metaphor that is missing (in a really intuitive form) mostly from even new OSes like Windows 8.

Hard disks are not dead, but I think the idea of having C:\Program Files\.. is. Even as a technical user myself the directory hierarchy is mostly just an abstraction that gets in my way. My work (i.e source code) is in git, my games are in Steam, my email is at google , my music on Spotify and all the "other stuff" is in dropbox.

What I need is an OS that ties all of these things together seamless regardless of whether the bytes themselves reside on the disk inside my computer or on some website somewhere but can provide sufficient tools when needed to fix leaky abstractions.

Let's suppose you could buy a new workstation soon that ran a nice clean Chrome OS desktop but had sufficient memory and hardware level virtualization that simply clipping in a "proper" Linux or all the MS libraries such as DirectX that you needed to run Windows apps was a trivial activity that could be abstracted away from the end user if required. Would you not be curious to buy one?

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#126
Nobody else thinks it's an odd coincidence that this post by Linus and a post by Douglas Crockford both on Google Plus were submitted two hours apart?

To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these.

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#127
post #126

Nobody else thinks it's an odd coincidence that this post by Linus and a post by Douglas Crockford both on Google Plus were submitted two hours apart? To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these.

And?

They were both worthy of submission IMO.

(The Douglas Crockford post more than this one though.)

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#128
post #120

The most interesting thing to me about each of these little episodes is how Linus, by creating the brilliant Linux kernel, is lauded as a sort-of-oracle when giving his opinion about very non-kernel things. I quite like the simple, opinionated approach to Gnome and Unity but my opinion (and others who may agree with me) matters somehow less because I didn't create this great thing that has nothing to do with UI desig…

I think you are wrong. I don't think people listen to Torvalds because he created and leads the development of the Linux kernel. I think people listen to him because he is very active in the free software community, voicing his opinions, writing in a somewhat balanced way and clearly expressing what he believes. People don't always agree with him (obviously the Gnome guys don't).

You can do exactly the same thing: make your voice heard, state clearly and preferrably factually what you think is best for the free software stack. People will listen!

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#129
post #126

Nobody else thinks it's an odd coincidence that this post by Linus and a post by Douglas Crockford both on Google Plus were submitted two hours apart? To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these.

> To clarify, I don't think it's a coincidence and I think Google employees probably submitted these.

If you look at the posters' profiles you can see where they both work. (Neither is currently a Google employee.)

Re: Linus Torvalds on new Chromebook Aura UI

#130

The "All-Web" paradigm is coming, folks. And it really doesn't matter how much you love your iPhone, or your Android, or Windows phone. Native apps are toast, in the long run. Your data is moving to the cloud -- your pictures, your music, your movies, and every document you write. It's all going up there, and local hard drives will be history within 3 years. And what that means is ALL software is heading there too. N…

>local hard drives will be history within 3 years

Want to make a bet? Name your stakes.

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