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Feral Minds

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Re: Feral Minds

#51
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we know that other H sapiens have the same kind of experiences of existing as you have? Best I can do is that "I know, right?" is a fairly universal reaction, so we know that even if others' qualia are not identical to ours, they are at least isomorphic. Seeing my own phrasing echoed back, I notice an ambiguity: "the same kind" can be either "all the same things" or "it is kinda close". The former is provabl…

> for all you know I might be a P-zombie that's just parroting phrases it once read Right, but as long as the phrases you parrot appear to continue a conversation that I usefully model as produced by (another?) consciousness, I pragmatically (see Peirce) don't care what the actual mechanism that produced them may be. (an analogy: when using computers we almost always care that a protocol is followed, often care that…

It depends on your goal. If all you care about is getting stuff done? I'd agree with your position.

But when that's all I care about, I don't ask that question. To me, the question of "consciousness" matters in, and only in, scenarios where the inner world matters, which is why I use that for my definition of "consciousness":

1. If I uploaded my brain, would that be a fork of my consciousness that would survive the death of my physical body? Tautologically only if it's "conscious".

2. Are the AI we make and use suffering a fate worse than the actual slaves in the Caribbean who invented the term "zombie" out of a fear that their masters would force them to keep working after death? Only if they're "conscious", and even then possibly not (suffering is an extra question to be asked once consciousness is determined).

I'd kinda like to get my brain uploaded, but there's no point if it's not a continuation of my consciousness.

I'd like to use a super-smart AI to solve my problems, but not if doing so involves creating minds that exist only for a few seconds before being destroyed.

Re: Feral Minds

#52
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a definition of consciousness: consciousness arises when a creature not only applies a theory of mind to others (predators, prey, and its conspecifics would all be likely others) but also applies a theory of mind to itself. (given that we have the most data on ourselves, it is not surprising that we'd have an "I", but it is a little surprising that the "I" modelled usually has such a high variance from others'…

Great (although that's a hypothesis for a cause rather than a definition), but for any discussion with another person, you have to be sure in advance that they don't use one of the other 49 common meanings of "consciousness". What I care about when I ask if an AI is or isn't conscious, is if it has the kind of experiences of existing that I know I have. Why is there a feeling of sensations rather than just the sensat…

[dead]

Re: Feral Minds

#53
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for all you know I might be a P-zombie that's just parroting phrases it once read Right, but as long as the phrases you parrot appear to continue a conversation that I usefully model as produced by (another?) consciousness, I pragmatically (see Peirce) don't care what the actual mechanism that produced them may be. (an analogy: when using computers we almost always care that a protocol is followed, often care that…

It depends on your goal. If all you care about is getting stuff done? I'd agree with your position. But when that's all I care about, I don't ask that question. To me, the question of "consciousness" matters in, and only in, scenarios where the inner world matters, which is why I use that for my definition of "consciousness": 1. If I uploaded my brain, would that be a fork of my consciousness that would survive the d…

Thinking about this a little, it's not clear to me that AI would have a problem with death. We seem unnecessarily asymmetric, caring a lot about our ego not existing in the future when we hardly consider that it already didn't exist for a very long time in the past, but that's probably evolutionary due to the embodiment?

— "Make me one with everything," said the monk to the hot dog vendor

(Vendor gives hot dog to monk, monk pays)

— "..." waits the monk

— "How much was that hot dog, anyway? I gave you a 20" says the monk

— "Change," replies the vendor, "is an illusion."

Re: Feral Minds

#54
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on your goal. If all you care about is getting stuff done? I'd agree with your position. But when that's all I care about, I don't ask that question. To me, the question of "consciousness" matters in, and only in, scenarios where the inner world matters, which is why I use that for my definition of "consciousness": 1. If I uploaded my brain, would that be a fork of my consciousness that would survive the d…

Thinking about this a little, it's not clear to me that AI would have a problem with death. We seem unnecessarily asymmetric, caring a lot about our ego not existing in the future when we hardly consider that it already didn't exist for a very long time in the past, but that's probably evolutionary due to the embodiment? — "Make me one with everything," said the monk to the hot dog vendor (Vendor gives hot dog to mon…

> Thinking about this a little, it's not clear to me that AI would have a problem with death. We seem unnecessarily asymmetric, caring a lot about our ego not existing in the future when we hardly consider that it already didn't exist for a very long time in the past, but that's probably evolutionary due to the embodiment?

Sure, but that same chasm of difference which means we can't guess at that (despite it being so innate to many of us), means we could very well accidentally cause suffering or induce rage even when we think we're being nice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokito_(gorilla)

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