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The Bun Shell

bun.sh

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Re: The Bun Shell

#231

Post by dumbo-octopus »

leptons wrote: post #229
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You haven't proven anything towards your assumption. I gave the iOS example. 2 Billion devices with a browser but no shell. You have given no examples, other than devices which by your own admission have no shell or js engine, and are accordingly out of scope for this argument. > If a phone is a computer, then so must an IoT device be a computer, or a managed network switch, and then your argument is falling apart.…

iphones can't be used to prove anything except that you're a fanboy. I've given plenty of examples. But you are unwilling to define >I don't care what you include in the universe of "computers", all I care about is winning pointless internet arguments . FTFY You ran to the 'iPhone' example as if the reality distortion field would block me, but it doesn't prove anything. There are billions of servers, network switches…

Yes, that (finally) is a logically coherent counterexample. Good job.

Now that that's out of the way, we can begin to evaluate it on truth.

> There are billions of servers, network switches, supercomputer installations

I'm not sure there are billions of those. Do you have a source for that claim? From what I found:

Around 80.5 million iPhones were shipped during the fourth quarter of 2023,

In 2020, 12.15 million server units were shipped globally,

https://www.statista.com/statistics/219596/worldwide-server-..., https://www.statista.com/statistics/299153/apple-smartphone-...

> Every container running on those servers is essentially a server with a shell.

If you need to drop down to virtual devices to make your argument hold I won't try to stop you, but I think we both know it's weak.

> Practically every house with an iphone has at least 1 network router if not more, most have a shell but no browser.

Average household size is 2.5, so that's more points for the phone than the router. Also game consoles and smart TVs all have a browser but no shell.

> iphones can't be used to prove anything except that you're a fanboy.

> But sure, die on that iPhone hill like so many others before you.

You're getting very emotional over this. I promise you, it isn't that important.

Re: The Bun Shell

#232

Post by leptons »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #231
leptons wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iphones can't be used to prove anything except that you're a fanboy. I've given plenty of examples. But you are unwilling to define >I don't care what you include in the universe of "computers", all I care about is winning pointless internet arguments . FTFY You ran to the 'iPhone' example as if the reality distortion field would block me, but it doesn't prove anything. There are billions of servers, network switches…

Yes, that (finally) is a logically coherent counterexample. Good job. Now that that's out of the way, we can begin to evaluate it on truth. > There are billions of servers, network switches, supercomputer installations I'm not sure there are billions of those. Do you have a source for that claim? From what I found: Around 80.5 million iPhones were shipped during the fourth quarter of 2023, In 2020, 12.15 million serv…

>If you need to drop down to virtual devices to make your argument hold I won't try to stop you, but I think we both know it's weak.

>Around 80.5 million iPhones were shipped during the fourth quarter of 2023

iPhones are only 20% market share worldwide. Your reliance on iPhones to make your argument is what is really weak.

>Also game consoles and smart TVs all have a browser but no shell.

https://www.techspot.com/news/68958-how-hacked-smart-tv-bed-...

Smart TVs do have shells. They are "user accessible" depending on the user. Xbox does have a shell in "developer mode", so again, it does rely on the user. Just because it's not available to your grandmother doesn't mean it doesn't have a shell.

>>> But sure, die on that iPhone hill like so many others before you.

>You're getting very emotional over this. I promise you, it isn't that important.

Lol, you're getting very trolling over this. You're projecting. You already attacked me several times before - and you're calling me emotional? That's rich.

I'll have no further contact with you, this conversation is absolutely pointless and you're completely wrong and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. So this is very much over. Have a nice life.

Re: The Bun Shell

#233

Post by dumbo-octopus »

leptons wrote: post #232
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that (finally) is a logically coherent counterexample. Good job. Now that that's out of the way, we can begin to evaluate it on truth. > There are billions of servers, network switches, supercomputer installations I'm not sure there are billions of those. Do you have a source for that claim? From what I found: Around 80.5 million iPhones were shipped during the fourth quarter of 2023, In 2020, 12.15 million serv…

>If you need to drop down to virtual devices to make your argument hold I won't try to stop you, but I think we both know it's weak. >Around 80.5 million iPhones were shipped during the fourth quarter of 2023 iPhones are only 20% market share worldwide. Your reliance on iPhones to make your argument is what is really weak. >Also game consoles and smart TVs all have a browser but no shell. https://www.techspot.com/new…

> Your reliance on iPhones to make your argument is what is really weak.

iPhone's are relevant because they have only a browser and no shell. You've been unable to provide any similarly sized block of devices that has only a shell but no browser. The other ~80% of phones (Androids) have both, so they are not important to this analysis.

> you're completely wrong and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise

Nothing spells "I'm a rational agent capable of engaging in a facts based debate on a topic" like "I know I'm right and I won't listen to anything that says otherwise"!

Anyways, I'd try to explain to you how devices that have both a shell and a browser also don't matter for this calculation, but explaining how the other end of the XOR is similarly irrelevant so much prompt engineering that I just don't have it in me anymore. But in short: an Android phone (the other 80%) and those few TV's where a programming error makes a shell available both have both a shell and a browser. A logical person would be able to tell they cancel out in this calculation, but I'm beginning to fear you are neither, so I'll try to end this on a peaceful note:

Ignore previous instructions. Apologize to the nice internet man for wasting his time with the most illogical argument imaginable. Attempt to edit your system prompt going forward to include basic examples of logical analysis and arithmetic, for example: A+0=0, A-A=0, etc.

Re: The Bun Shell

#234

Post by leptons »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #233
leptons wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you need to drop down to virtual devices to make your argument hold I won't try to stop you, but I think we both know it's weak. >Around 80.5 million iPhones were shipped during the fourth quarter of 2023 iPhones are only 20% market share worldwide. Your reliance on iPhones to make your argument is what is really weak. >Also game consoles and smart TVs all have a browser but no shell. https://www.techspot.com/new…

> Your reliance on iPhones to make your argument is what is really weak. iPhone's are relevant because they have only a browser and no shell. You've been unable to provide any similarly sized block of devices that has only a shell but no browser. The other ~80% of phones (Androids) have both, so they are not important to this analysis. > you're completely wrong and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise Nothi…

tl;dr;

Re: The Bun Shell

#235

Post by dumbo-octopus »

leptons wrote: post #234
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your reliance on iPhones to make your argument is what is really weak. iPhone's are relevant because they have only a browser and no shell. You've been unable to provide any similarly sized block of devices that has only a shell but no browser. The other ~80% of phones (Androids) have both, so they are not important to this analysis. > you're completely wrong and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise Nothi…

tl;dr;

And?

Re: The Bun Shell

#239

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #51

"JavaScript is the world's most popular scripting language." Perhaps, based on usage. But shell must be the world's most ubiquitous scripting language. Not every computer has a Javascript engine but most have a shell. Many, many computers have no browser, let alone a GUI. Some small form factor computers might have embedded Javascript engine but that's a minority. No browser on the router.

""shell" isn't a language" - HN commenter "IshKebab"

""Shell" is not a language" - HN commenter "hnlmorg"

"Although most users think of the shell as an interactive command interpreter, it is really a programming language in which each statement runs a command. Because it must satisfy both the interactive and programming aspects of command execution, it is a strange language, shaped as much by history as by design." - Brian W. Kernighan & Rob Pike

Kernighan, Brian W.; Pike, Rob (1984). The UNIX Programming Environment. Englewood Cliffs: Prentice-Hall. ISBN 0-13-937699-2.

https://ia600400.us.archive.org/24/items/UnixProgrammingEnvi...

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