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High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

bbc.co.uk

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Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#191

Post by unimpressive »

tptacek wrote: post #157
chc wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think maybe lawyers, who are actually versed in the frameworks on which the laws are built, are more capable than a group that by and large doesn't even seem to understand the difference between different kinds of intellectual property?

Someone needs to start a site where we can submit HN comment links and then bet on the responses that they're likely to generate.

A HN prediction market?

I'm not sure that comments have a long enough shelf life for people to bet.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#192

Post by pippy »

citricsquid wrote: post #31
MattBearman wrote: post #17

The ruling is mostly full of shit: Sites like The Pirate Bay destroy jobs in the UK and undermine investment in new British artists I'd like to see evidence to back this up, innocent until proven guilty and all. The Pirate Bay infringes copyright on a massive scale No, it doesn't. TPB doesn't provide any content at all. Not only that, but it also provides links to non-copyright infringing material. Eg: Some of Nine I…

> No, it doesn't. TPB doesn't provide any content at all. Not only that, but it also provides links to non-copyright infringing material. Eg: Some of Nine Inch Nails recent releases have been legally made available over bittorrent in 24/96 high quality. And my drug dealer gave $50 to a pregnant woman so that she could get a taxi to the hospital. If you want to argue why this ruling is wrong you should address the iss…

Technically TPB enables copyright infringement, it doesn't engage in it. It's the users who upload torrent files (now magnet links), and the users who download material.

Giving someone a loaded gun doesn't make the gun maker a killer. It's the sites users who do the illegal horse work.

Ignoring the fact cutting access to the TPB is censorship, and law makers are bending to the will of companies, and the fact studies have shown that pirated material promotes and increases profits, people will always find a way. Bringing a hard drive to a friends house will allow me to pirate far more than downloading ever could.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#193

Post by manveru »

losvedir wrote: post #165
tptacek wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticize me as much as you want! I don't take it personally. If you end up being right, I'll benefit from it --- no matter how you choose to phrase it. I'm sorry you feel I'm being snide. I don't intend to be. Regardless, each successive HN "legality" discussion drives me further towards some conclusions (here I'll use 'nerd' as a shorthand for "people such as myself who come from a tech background and like to argue…

Thank you for putting into words exactly what frustrates me about the legal system! You've exactly captured how I find myself reasoning about the law, and now that it's so explicit, I see that that's clearly wrong. This is similar to an epiphany I had when reading a blog post explaining intellectual property through an analogy of the "color" of a portion of code. How intention and legal action shape the color, wherea…

For your clicking pleasure: http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#194

Post by gcb »

tptacek wrote: post #180
gcb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. the site is not hosted in the US. (or UK) 2. The decision is for ISP. So no argument regarding the piratebay is valid at all. 3. The ISPs are not fitting into any of those rules. 4. If ISPs must block access to the pirate bay, then it must block access to every connection that would infrige a law if the territorial barrier were removed. In this case, a US/UK person accessing something that is illegal in the US/UK…

I wasn't directly addressing this particular judgement; a judge already addressed it. Exactly what makes you sure that (4) is how the law is going to work in this case, though?

isnt't that the reasoning for forcing a ISP to block a particular site?

if it's interpreted as that once, thanks to incentives from the recording industry, why can't it then be called out later?

(this is base on watching law&order, not real life, that's why i'm discussing it here)

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#195

Post by gouranga »

luriel wrote: post #158
gouranga wrote: post #92

It's getting like a nightmare vision of capitalism in the 1980s. You know like Robocop or Gremlins 2 where the city sold out to corporations. Corporate interest over common sense. We'll just have to mail DivXs to each other like we did in the late 90s when bandwith was low...

Copyright is a government granted and government enforced monopoly. Its got little to do with capitalism.

Rubbish.

When the successful capitalists lobby politicians and pay them off regularly, it's a closed loop between government and corporations.

Us peons don't get a look in.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#196

Post by J3L2404 »

tptacek wrote: post #157
chc wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think maybe lawyers, who are actually versed in the frameworks on which the laws are built, are more capable than a group that by and large doesn't even seem to understand the difference between different kinds of intellectual property?

Someone needs to start a site where we can submit HN comment links and then bet on the responses that they're likely to generate.

Well you won't make any money on these endless copyright circle jerks.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#197

Post by robryan »

sp332 wrote: post #91
benologist wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you not profit off BILLIONS of ad impressions a month? I can understand some other website believing TPB's a penniless, selfless endeavor but people here should be able to translate "top 100 website" and "multiple ads per page" into more than just operating expenses. It's not like they're YouTube serving terabytes of traffic a second, they also have no support, no shipping, and of course they sure don't have a…

There's content on that site that no advertiser wants to be associated with, that's why.

You would probably get a terrible conversion rate to given most people are visiting the site so they don't have to pay for things.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#198

Post by Flimm »

Tycho wrote: post #190
Flimm wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned about individual rights too. In fact, it's my concern for individual rights that leads me to reject overly restrictive copyright, (among other things). I find these rights to be valuable: freedom of speech, freedom of creativity, and property rights. (To be clear, by property, I do not include imaginary property like copyright.) Why shouldn't I be able to make back-up copies of the DVDs that are bought…

Nobody gives two hoots about backing up DVDs, singing happy birthday, or painting Hobbits.

I do.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#199

Post by ekianjo »

paulhauggis wrote: post #132
ekianjo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said for any merchant: selling the work of others without creating anything yourself. If this makes you scream, you should be very angry at supermarkets.

"The same can be said for any merchant: selling the work of others without creating anything yourself. If this makes you scream, you should be very angry at supermarkets." No. Do you know how a supermarket works? They have deals with various vendors and the vendors willingly put their products in the store. The vendors also get a cut when their product sells. The pirate bay, on the other hand, makes money by giving f…

I was not commenting about the cash flow from producer to customer when I posted. I wanted to highlight that there are a lot of intermediates who bring no value (or little) whatsoever to the end user. Supermarkets basically charge 30% of the full price or more just to have your CD/DVD/Video Game in their shelves. Do they deserve that much of YOUR money ? They usually make more money than the artists/creators in the first place.

Of course, you can say the value of a supermarket is to bring your product's awareness to the mass market. Which is very true, because it gains a lot of visibility.

And that's exactly what something like TPB does: it gives visibility to the different creations. It's just like radio: you get to enjoy free music, with ads. Only a small minority will actually buy the CD and go to the concert, but this is still worth it. TPB a radio for files. Whether they pay the creators or not is irrelevant. It still provides "value" to the creators in the first place by spreading their creations in the Netspace.

Re: High Court: The Pirate Bay must be blocked by UK ISPs

#200

Post by comex »

Flimm wrote: post #178
Tycho wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the people (me included) defend copyright because it's a net benefit to the individual, and a fair benefit too (not unfair to anyone). Whether it's a net benefit to humanity, however you measure that, is neither here nor there. It probably is, but those are not the grounds we're arguing on. It's sort of like defending privacy. You don't defend it cause of some net benefit to humanity. Who knows, maybe the wo…

I'm concerned about individual rights too. In fact, it's my concern for individual rights that leads me to reject overly restrictive copyright, (among other things). I find these rights to be valuable: freedom of speech, freedom of creativity, and property rights. (To be clear, by property, I do not include imaginary property like copyright.) Why shouldn't I be able to make back-up copies of the DVDs that are bought…

Why shouldn't anyone be able to download the game some indie studio bet the farm on and is selling DRM-free for $20, and play it for free?

There's a difference between sharing culture and outright ripping people off; if you think this should be prohibited, you aren't really categorically against copyright, only its current implementation.

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