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Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#291

Post by lazide »

nemo wrote: post #259
mkl wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cultures and traditions are different in different places, even with gigabit internet and ubiquitous literacy.

Roman North Africa was thoroughly Romanized by the era these start showing up, and the eastern provinces were as well. The might be some cultural reason these show up where they do, seems likely, it's very, very dubious that this cultural reason had to do with metalworkers identifying themselves since the sort of Roman metal working technology and culture around it was actually very standardized across the empire at…

Why would they need knit mittens/gloves in North Africa?

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#292

Post by dylan604 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #275
cubefox wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, that's the other good point. Really they are parts of the more general incoherency: "My religion is correct, while all the other religions, current or from the past, are mere superstition."

Then there's my favorite, Pascal's Wager: "Why not accept my particular God? What do you have to lose?" Advocates of the Wager never seem to consider what Zeus's opinion might be.

Your assumption is that the advocates of the Wager give a damn about Zeus to be begin with which seems flawed to me.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#293

Post by meindnoch »

declan_roberts wrote: post #218
mildchalupa wrote: post #16

I thought it was determined to be a glove finger knitting apparatus.

I love seeing all of the nerdy (and wrong) explanations of it, when in reality somebody’s grandma took a look at it and said “oh that’s for sewing gloves”. No mention in the article for this purpose, but sometimes it takes a bit for grandma info to reach the researchers.

That's a heartwarming story. Unfortunately it's bullshit.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#294

Post by s0rce »

tarikjn wrote: post #189
mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

The equivalent today would be 3Dbenchy boats -- "we found an identical boat toy design in multiple sites made of different plastic materials, colors and sizes. It is spread universally around the World cities, found in sites of crafts, leading us to believe it is an idol of a new 21st century religion predominant among workers of the arts and crafts"

or one of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304770714900?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt...

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#295

Post by SantalBlush »

throwup238 wrote: post #262
SantalBlush wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks in this thread are latching on to this theory and making speculations to support it.

As is tradition in archaeology.

It's the archaeologists saying, “Nobody knows for certain how the Romans used them,” and offering a variety of competing theories, while people on this thread are trying to finesse the facts to support the theory they like.

So saying, "archaeologists are doing it" is demonstrably untrue here.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#296

Post by [deleted] »

mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

[deleted]

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#297

Post by nkrisc »

stevenwoo wrote: post #261
atoav wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? If it was a common item, it would be natural that there a deluxe versions for e.g. the royal household. The cheap and simple versions would have rotted away by now.

The article mentions that none of them exhibit wear marks that are characteristic of tools.

I’ve seen many vases and other such vessels in the homes of rich people that are not used to store liquids, but instead sit there empty on a console table in the hallway!

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#298

Post by INTPenis »

shuntress wrote: post #215
garciansmith wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people would never have willingly traveled far from their birthplace, in medieval Europe or the Roman Empire. This is especially true for those who had few skills. You could do basic labor in your own village, but how could you leave without any money or support network (e.g., a family)? Why would people trust you elsewhere? The dynamic was probably different in larger cities, of which there were…

People definitely travelled. For business, religion, and pleasure. There wouldn't be such extensive roads if they didn't.

Sure, but for the vast majority of workers and artisans they would most likely do a pilgrimage. And we have found tons of little charms, even penises, but they are all much smaller than any of the dodecahedrons.

Travel with luggage is what I was referring to as rare for most people.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#299

Post by nemo »

mkl wrote: post #282
nemo wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman North Africa was thoroughly Romanized by the era these start showing up, and the eastern provinces were as well. The might be some cultural reason these show up where they do, seems likely, it's very, very dubious that this cultural reason had to do with metalworkers identifying themselves since the sort of Roman metal working technology and culture around it was actually very standardized across the empire at…

Well, the regions the dodecahedrons have been found were mostly not thoroughly Romanised, right? From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron : "at least 116 similar objects have been found in Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Hungary, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the United Kingdom".

No, that's not right at all. Those areas were all part of the Roman empire and thoroughly Romanized as well. They used generally identical Roman technologies in Britain as North Africa or Italy, spoke the same Latin, used the same building styles, clothing styles varied primarily by how many layers they wore, they had the same legal system, and shared Roman arts and culture.

Man of those countries speak Germanic languages now since they were invaded by Germanic speaking people after the Western Roman Empire collapsed, but there's still Roman ruins and old Roman cities to be found in all of those countries.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#300

Post by nemo »

lazide wrote: post #291
nemo wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman North Africa was thoroughly Romanized by the era these start showing up, and the eastern provinces were as well. The might be some cultural reason these show up where they do, seems likely, it's very, very dubious that this cultural reason had to do with metalworkers identifying themselves since the sort of Roman metal working technology and culture around it was actually very standardized across the empire at…

Why would they need knit mittens/gloves in North Africa?

I don't think they would, geographic frequency actually does make the knitting tool idea more compelling, though none of the dodecahedra show any sign of wear from use which makes the knitting tool hypothesis sound unlikely - if the dodecahedra was a tool it wasn't used frequently at all. I don't think any hypothesis is all that compelling, they are very much a mystery.
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