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Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

arstechnica.com

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Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#161

Post by bejk22 »

danaris wrote: post #140
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the spirit, but don't like the unintended consequence that it would create a stigma around sedans -- "oh, those are the cars for the bad drivers". We need to do something that makes SUV drivers feel ridiculous and humiliated. Or, failing that, just make it expensive: Weight and size dependent tolls, say (using the fourth power of weight, possibly, to match road wear equations?). Or just fewer lanes in which th…

If we're going to try to "punish" SUV drivers for driving those vehicles, then I think we need to both recognize and do some things: 1) We need to recognize that there's a wide variety of vehicles in the SUV category. Many of them have replaced (not supplemented, replaced , because they sell better and car companies are hyperoptimizing their profits like everyone else) old standards like station wagons and minivans i…

I won't recognize (2) because it's false. Any current - and past - fwd will work just fine in Canadian snowy and icy conditions. Sure if you drive a shitty propulsion car you will get stuck everywhere but those cars are the exception.

Edit: you acknowledged yourself that argument is mostly bs later in your comment...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#162

Post by punkybr3wster »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #109
jetrink wrote: post #54

My proposed regulation is to introduce a hazardous vehicle license for large trucks and SUVs. Everyone is automatically granted one alongside their normal drivers license, but if you're caught driving recklessly (weaving through traffic on the highway, aggressively tailgating, speeding through residential or urban areas), you lose it and you have to drive a normal-sized car. Perhaps there's a way to earn it back thro…

Just require a class A/B license to drive anything above...I don't know, 4000lbs? Exclude batteries from the weight if that becomes a problem for electric cars.

In the F150 Lightning the batteries even on a standard range weigh as much as a Volkswagen. The standard range batteries weigh something like 1800lbs. The ER model has about 25% more battery and the Platinum weight is like 7150lbs! So maybe around 2100lbs of that is battery?

So you’re still over 5000lbs on that monster without the batteries.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#163

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #120
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to do something that makes SUV drivers feel ridiculous and humiliated Oh, that couldn't possibly have any side effects.

Hopefully it would have an effect. 95% of the people in these giant walls of steel have no reason to be driving them.

I see. And how have you determined that?

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#164

Post by dcotter »

burnerburnson wrote: post #90
tasty_freeze wrote: post #55

There is another angle here besides the immediate impact (pun intended) of getting hit by a big truck. I'm nearly 60, but I can remember what it was like learning to drive back in 1980. Before SUVs and huge pickup trucks became common, and before tinting windows to near opacity became a thing, it was possible to see road conditions three cars ahead -- you simply looked through the windows of the car or cars in front…

I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane just so that I don't have to be stuck behind someone I can't see around. The tinted front/rear windows really piss me off because they make my drive more dangerous for very little reason. I'd make them illegal if it were up to me.

Know what's already illegal? Passing on the right:

> Laws that cover passing when crossing the centerline of the roadway is not required (where there are multiple lanes in the same direction), often say something like this:

> The driver of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left thereof at a safe distance and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle.

source: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/beat-tick...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#165

Post by kjkjadksj »

danaris wrote: post #140
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the spirit, but don't like the unintended consequence that it would create a stigma around sedans -- "oh, those are the cars for the bad drivers". We need to do something that makes SUV drivers feel ridiculous and humiliated. Or, failing that, just make it expensive: Weight and size dependent tolls, say (using the fourth power of weight, possibly, to match road wear equations?). Or just fewer lanes in which th…

If we're going to try to "punish" SUV drivers for driving those vehicles, then I think we need to both recognize and do some things: 1) We need to recognize that there's a wide variety of vehicles in the SUV category. Many of them have replaced (not supplemented, replaced , because they sell better and car companies are hyperoptimizing their profits like everyone else) old standards like station wagons and minivans i…

Suv style vehicles are actually a lot more dangerous in the snow. Its so much more mass you are dealing with and damage when you lose grip entirely on ice under gravity power alone. On video clips of this sedans and such might kind of bump against a parked car and come to a stop while the big Suburban goes on to total a parked car with all the kinetic energy. If you want a snow tank, get a car that weighs like ~2500lbs, put on actual snow tires, and keep the transmission in high gear to engine brake. It also helps to learn to brake traction and skid with control in a snowy empty parking lot.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#166

Post by Stratoscope »

el_benhameen wrote: post #115
burnerburnson wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane just so that I don't have to be stuck behind someone I can't see around. The tinted front/rear windows really piss me off because they make my drive more dangerous for very little reason. I'd make them illegal if it were up to me.

Tinted front windshields are illegal in California, among other states, fwiw. The law just isn’t enforced, just like modded exhaust, and residential speed limits … and passing on the right.

It's perfectly legal in California to safely pass on the right on a multilane highway and in some other situations. What is illegal is using anything other than a normal traffic lane to do this, such as the shoulder.

Of course this does not excuse GP's practice where "I regularly pass people on the right and then cut them off getting back into the left lane..."

Unless I misunderstood GP's comment, that sounds like reckless driving.

Source:

CVC 21754. The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass to the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions: (c) Upon any highway outside of a business or residence district with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width and clearly marked for two or more lines of moving traffic in the direction of travel.

CVC 21755. (a) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting that movement in safety. In no event shall that movement be made by driving off the paved or main-traveled portion of the roadway.

[other subsections omitted here, see below for full text]

https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/divisi...

https://law.justia.com/codes/california/2022/code-veh/divisi...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#167

Post by B56b »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #99
sickofparadox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 a…

> It's government regulations that made trucks get this big This is presented incredibly dishonestly in this context. It's well understood that automakers had their grubby little hands all over emissions regulations in the late Bush admin. They spent oodles of cash, tons of lobbyist time, and BEGGED for the exclusions for trucks that made complete sense at the time for TRUCKS, as in, pickup trucks used by laborers th…

With the ubiquity of SUVs at this point I can't imagine that many of them are being sold to men wanting to feel more "Rugged". I would think the vast majority are bought by those who want the additional space and safety of these cars, like families. It's going to be very difficult to convince consumers to drive cars smaller cars they see as less safe without some significant costs imposed on larger cars.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#168

Post by sokoloff »

punkybr3wster wrote: post #162
BobaFloutist wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just require a class A/B license to drive anything above...I don't know, 4000lbs? Exclude batteries from the weight if that becomes a problem for electric cars.

In the F150 Lightning the batteries even on a standard range weigh as much as a Volkswagen. The standard range batteries weigh something like 1800lbs. The ER model has about 25% more battery and the Platinum weight is like 7150lbs! So maybe around 2100lbs of that is battery? So you’re still over 5000lbs on that monster without the batteries.

I feel confident in wagering that GP didn't intend to allow driving an F150 with a regular license.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#169

Post by BobaFloutist »

gnicholas wrote: post #160
BobaFloutist wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just require a class A/B license to drive anything above...I don't know, 4000lbs? Exclude batteries from the weight if that becomes a problem for electric cars.

Although I see why you'd want to exclude batteries from weight, I'm not sure it's totally justified. After all, F = MA regardless. A friend of mine was hit by an EV and suffered broken bones, despite being belted, and on the opposite side of the car that was hit. If it had been a lighter vehicle, her injuries wouldn't have been as bad.

My main thinking was there are a lot of things weight can (somewhat) be a shorthand for: Visibility past/around the car, visibility from within the car, carbon emissions, difficulty to drive, amount of space taken to park, deadliness of collision due directly to weight, impact on roads, and deadliness of collision due to form factor.

Of those, the deadliness of collision due to weight and impact on roads are the only ones that still hold up if it's an EV. I just want to avoid a situation in which someone gets a gas engine instead of an EV of the same form factor because they would need a special license to drive the EV, which just barely gets over the weight limit. But I would also be open to this law in any form.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#170

Post by [deleted] »

danaris wrote: post #140
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the spirit, but don't like the unintended consequence that it would create a stigma around sedans -- "oh, those are the cars for the bad drivers". We need to do something that makes SUV drivers feel ridiculous and humiliated. Or, failing that, just make it expensive: Weight and size dependent tolls, say (using the fourth power of weight, possibly, to match road wear equations?). Or just fewer lanes in which th…

If we're going to try to "punish" SUV drivers for driving those vehicles, then I think we need to both recognize and do some things: 1) We need to recognize that there's a wide variety of vehicles in the SUV category. Many of them have replaced (not supplemented, replaced , because they sell better and car companies are hyperoptimizing their profits like everyone else) old standards like station wagons and minivans i…

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