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Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

arstechnica.com

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Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#121

Post by sickofparadox »

stcredzero wrote: post #89
sickofparadox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 a…

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Lots of Americans want smaller trucks. I just saw a Netflix show where a main character prized his old Toyota pickup. This is also evidenced in the importation of Japanese "K-car" trucks.

>Lots of Americans want smaller trucks

I agree! I believe I said similar in my above comment. I'm looking into getting one myself, though I'm apprehensive about purchasing a car built in 99 without being able to test drive or inspect it.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#122

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

Better their trucks than my family members.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#123

Post by _puk »

Jayakumark wrote: post #104
stefan_ wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Streets haven't gotten wider since then either. Maybe less of a problem in the US where everything is planned around humongous fire trucks, but in the EU if you had a street that could easily accommodate two moving lanes with parking on either side, that has basically narrowed down to one moving lane. Also reminds me of all the regulation around car lights - you literally specified the beam pattern light intensity co…

To add to it, they should put a limit on Lumens on Headlight something like not to exceed 2000 lumens, Also its temperature should be 3000k range like old cars but new ones are like 8000k. yesterday night - saw a light that must be atleast 20000 lumens its like watching sun, cant see anything for a few seconds.

They (The RAC[0]) are actually pushing for regulation here in the UK along those lines.

There seems to be quite a push from the public to do something, so maybe it'll change one day..

"According to the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, between the ages of 15 and 65, the time it takes to recover from glare increases from one to nine seconds.

At 60 miles an hour, that’s 250 yards in nine seconds.

Baroness Hayter said: "The Group’s first interaction with Ministers led them to say: No problem here, no evidence of deaths or serious injuries. Since then, the public have reached out to tell us they disagree, and that many are stopping driving at night, with eight out of 10 drivers surveyed wanting action to reduce glare.

"We know other countries share our concern, with drivers demanding action. The Government needs to heed our call for action and be on the side of road safety."

0: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/drivers-deman...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#124

Post by iknowstuff »

Havoc wrote: post #65
iknowstuff wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cybertruck has not been shown to have lower pedestrian safety than other trucks. Ironically, you’re commenting on an article about higher hoods, and the CT has one of the lowest hoods among trucks on the market.

I'm commenting on pedestrian safety & regulators absence. Sharp edges and rolled steel instead of crumple zones is absolutely a bad time if you're a pedestrian. High hoods isn't the only possible risk.

1) It seems you are confusing crumple zones (which the ct definitely has lol) with cushioning the impact for a pedestrian.

2) sure, but the only research we have says higher hood = much more deadly. Cybertruck has a lower hood with a better angle. So why single it out when the jury is out on what’s more important for safety

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#125

Post by mturmon »

wharvle wrote: post #77
tasty_freeze wrote: post #55

There is another angle here besides the immediate impact (pun intended) of getting hit by a big truck. I'm nearly 60, but I can remember what it was like learning to drive back in 1980. Before SUVs and huge pickup trucks became common, and before tinting windows to near opacity became a thing, it was possible to see road conditions three cars ahead -- you simply looked through the windows of the car or cars in front…

Windows and front/back windshields are way smaller now, too. It's like we're all driving around looking out of tank-viewport-slits. (I'm sure there are exceptions in some models—I drove a buddy's Jeep-truck the other day and the unusually-good-by-modern-standards visibility nearly turned me into a Jeep guy on the spot—but that's the trend)

Yes. As you may know, recent safety regulations prompted by rollover incidents have meant that the "A" and "C" pillars connecting the body to the roof have been made wider. [See the first 2 paragraphs of the "Design" section of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_(car) ]

It seems like there's a second-order effect here on visibility that may not have been really appreciated.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#126

Post by saltcured »

wharvle wrote: post #77
tasty_freeze wrote: post #55

There is another angle here besides the immediate impact (pun intended) of getting hit by a big truck. I'm nearly 60, but I can remember what it was like learning to drive back in 1980. Before SUVs and huge pickup trucks became common, and before tinting windows to near opacity became a thing, it was possible to see road conditions three cars ahead -- you simply looked through the windows of the car or cars in front…

Windows and front/back windshields are way smaller now, too. It's like we're all driving around looking out of tank-viewport-slits. (I'm sure there are exceptions in some models—I drove a buddy's Jeep-truck the other day and the unusually-good-by-modern-standards visibility nearly turned me into a Jeep guy on the spot—but that's the trend)

Cars in the 80s and 90s definitely had more of a "greenhouse" feel to them, with mostly transparent glass and small framing.

Due to a mixture of standards, this has changed. The roof cap and pillars have thickened and curved for roll-over protection, and front pillars are also thicker to hold air bags that didn't exist in those older cars. The windows sills are higher up relative to the driver, to improve side-impact protection.

There are other changes too, such as dark coatings around the edges of windshields and fat mounts behind the rear view mirror to hold sensors, cameras, etc. As a tall driver, I find these changes very frustrating. The rear view mirror is capable of hiding a crossing car at a 4-way stop, and I sometimes cannot even see overhead traffic lights when stopped in the first position at an intersection.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#127

Post by mecsred »

practicemaths wrote: post #62
mecsred wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you become the parked traffic, how does anyone see over you? Guess they need an even taller vehicle.

Yup. There's certainly a feedback loop. Just stating things that make these larger vehicles more easier to drive, especially for women whom on average are generally shorter so, even with pumping the seat up it's still considerably harder to see around traffic.

I definitely get it. My girlfriend drives an SUV and I'd be lying if I said I never felt glad about that the way drivers and roads are out here. She's also been in an accident (with minimal injuries miraculously) where an SUV wrecked her E-bike in a pedestrian crossing because it "couldn't see" her.

I find it important to continually bring up the fact that it can be different. More public transit and bike paths. If I we could take bikes around the city without worrying about being killed or having them stolen it would be a dream.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#128

Post by Hamuko »

stcredzero wrote: post #96
infecto wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do believe people often buy trucks for the looks and emotional feeling, I equally feel that your projection itself is just as dangerous as the idea behind it.

Yeah, contemptuously painting a diverse group of people with a broad brush as pernicious -- History has something to say about this mental move.

I have a hard time believing that truck drivers are a diverse group of people when they're really only popular in a single region of the world.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#129

Post by olyjohn »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #86
olyjohn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.

...what? If you've got back, hip, knee, or ankle problems, then trying to bend down into a low car is an undignified exercise at best, a struggle at worst. A CUV doesn't have that problem, you just sit into it like a chair. For a family with young children, securing child seats into a CUV involves a lot less bending over then in lower car. Bear in mind that many child seats are 40 lbs. If you live in a snowy area, th…

Minivan. You can get a minivan that has more room than a crossover, lower load height so that you hurt even less getting in, and you have more headroom to get car seats in and out. They're far superior in every way. But everybody quit buying them because of some "uncool" factor. It's stupid.

The ground clearance on most crossovers is a joke. I have to point out how my Lotus Elise has 6 inches of ground clearance, and most CUVs have maybe an inch more than that. They have low-hanging diffs that hang up, and no recovery points for when you do get stuck. They're still the same car, barely jacked up. They look higher, but they aren't that much higher. Your one inch of extra clearance isn't saving you. The black plastic fenders don't make it rugged or capable. Most are just FWD, and the ones that are AWD just overheat and burn out the transfer case.

I live in a rural area, in the mountains, with lots of steep hills. My long ass driveway doesn't get plowed, my street is extremely low priority for plowing, never had problems getting around with 2wd cars. You sound like my neighbors who keep saying that I need a big 4wd truck to live out here. People just keep making these excuses to buy bigger cars that sit higher, without actually evaluating if these vehicles actually have the things they're marketed to be able to do.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#130

Post by olyjohn »

Johnny555 wrote: post #50
olyjohn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't ignore that every other person also has moved from driving cars to crossovers that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high, and that's what sells crossovers. The hoods are higher in them too and we can't discount this and blame it all on big trucks.

that offer no actual advantages over a regular car. Most people want to sit high Isn't that the advantage? In a world where SUV's and trucks are more popular than sedans, sitting higher gives a sight advantage (and probably safety advantage in a side collision with one of those high cars). I drive a midsized sedan most of the time, but when I drive the RV (which has a higher seating position than many SUV's), I love…

Seating height doesn't help you see over cars when everybody else is also in a crossover at the same height as you.
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