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Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

arstechnica.com

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Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#31

Post by 7e »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #14
baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.

If you’re short, you prefer a vehicle which elevates your view.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#32

Post by dingnuts »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #14
baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.

it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements.

Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unintended effects.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#33

Post by trgn »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #14
baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.

All true.

_everybody_ drives huge SUVs. A few rugged men(TM) driving a large truck isn't the problem, they're couleur locale. It'd be adorable, like people wearing cowboy hats in Texas.

The web of interwoven incentive structures - reptile brains, cafe standards, cheap gas, safety arms race, ... - pushing _everybody_ towards larger vehicles is the problem. System and id are completely misaligned, killing thousands in the process.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#35

Post by dingnuts »

beretguy wrote: post #28

Whoever injures - or knock on wood kills - somebody with a truck with such a high hood should serve a mandatory prison sentence.

vehicular manslaughter is already a crime, and these trucks have been regulated INTO existence, not out of consumer desire and a lack of regulation. Consumers preferred small trucks until they disappeared due to CAFE standards.

If you want the government to intervene, their first step should be to remove the regulations that encourage this growth in vehicle size to begin with, rather than going after consumers who have very little choice in trucks

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#36

Post by sickofparadox »

baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

It's government regulations that made trucks get this big, most people simply buy what is available in the form factor they like. Trucks are the most popular form factor in the United States (with pickups a close second)[1], and the manufacturers keep making the cars bigger because of the poorly written CAFE laws[2]. I, and I suspect most Americans with pickups, would prefer to purchase one the size of a '90s F-150 as compared to the monsters of today but manufacturers can't or won't sell me one. Making up some macho strawman to attack actually obfuscates the problem and makes discussing solutions more difficult.

[1] https://www.motortrend.com/features/car-types-models-body-st....

[2]https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-cars-are-getting-huge-ar...

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#37

Post by njarboe »

baggachipz wrote: post #6

Yeah but the drivers get to cosplay as Rugged Men™. The only thing that'll reverse the trend and stop this from getting worse will be government regulation. Then come the cries of "Now they're taking our trucks!"

Trucks have a 25% import tax in the US and cars don't since the 1960. US domestic vehicle manufacturers have spent many decades to convince people to buy trucks and SUVs because of this fact. Google "chicken tax". Large station wagons used to be quite popular in the 1960's

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#38

Post by tempestn »

somedude895 wrote: post #7

Did we really need a study for this? What's next? A study to find out whether a hammer to the head or torso is more lethal than a hammer to the legs? What a total racket to spend money on something like this.

First, things that are obvious aren't always correct. It's better to rely on actual data than intuition alone. Second, the study not only gives the qualitative result that higher hoods are more dangerous, but also begins to quantify the effect, and can give an idea of the specific height at which the pedestrian danger begins to spike.

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#39

Post by trgn »

dingnuts wrote: post #32
KennyBlanken wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I see someone behind the wheel of the absolute largest SUV a company offers, it's a small woman. Even as far back when SUVs first became a thing, I noticed that the smallest moms at school at the biggest SUVs. They love the "might" that a huge vehicle gives them.

it's because they are mothers with >2 children. You cannot fit three car seats in the backseat of modern sedans, and station wagons don't meet the emissions requirements. Large SUVs meet CAFE regulations by being large enough to be regulated as a different class of vehicle. Want smaller trucks? Complain to your Congresscritter to reign in the EPA and force them to write better regulation that does not have these unin…

All true, also sad. That aside, how's the EPA responsible, not sure if I understand the connection?

Re: Higher vehicle hoods significantly increase pedestrian deaths, study finds

#40

Post by tasty_freeze »

somedude895 wrote: post #7

Did we really need a study for this? What's next? A study to find out whether a hammer to the head or torso is more lethal than a hammer to the legs? What a total racket to spend money on something like this.

I'll take your question seriously. Why do people do studies like this when the answer seems obvious?

(1) It quantifies the seriousness of the problem. Does it increase the chance of death or significant injury by 1%, 10%, 50%? Without reading the article, what is the "obvious" answer to that question?

(2) People believe many "obvious" things that aren't true. They are trivial to find simply by finding two groups with opposite beliefs on a subject and both think their conclusions are obvious. Eg, did the COVID-19 vaccines reduce or increase death rates? It seems obvious to me that it was a great benefit, but there are people going on TV claiming the vaccines killed millions of people.

(3) Even in areas that aren't contentious, there are many widely believed but untested assumptions. If someone didn't spend the time and effort to validate those things, we might never find what is really true. 50 years ago it was unquestioned that stress is what causes ulcers. Almost nobody questioned that except for the one guy who did the experiment that proved it was bacterial in origin. Had his result been negative, you'd be here to mock him.

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