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United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

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Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes these are clearly identical situations with no difference at all! /s

You're right, in one situation you have people rejecting a product with years of research vetted by regulators around the world because they don't like the business practices and politics of the organizations behind it. On the other, you have... the same exact thing. Whoops. They are the same.

I'm not rejecting the physics of airtravel, or that planes can in principle be engineered and built safely.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese COMAC seems to be on the verge of selling meaningful numbers to chinese airlines. Wont be surprised if they are a very viable competitor in ~20 years which isn’t much in the aviation world where backlogs span a decade

> Chinese COMAC seems to be on the verge of selling meaningful numbers to chinese airlines. That's easy when the PRC is mandating it, but given the hard earned safety record of say... Airbus, people are not in a rush to stake their lives and businesses on Chinese built aircraft. They're not exactly known for the transparency and integrity. In 20 years COMAC is likely to suffer multiple deadly crashes.

Does it matter though that the numbers are because of PRC tipping the scales? It worked for chinese internet and auto companies. Also, chinese manufacturing is obviously capable of high standards of manufacturing if they decide to. People forget how tenuous airbus once looked or how fast they scaled up

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what. I'm sympathetic to the notion that not every Bad Thing is because of "maximizing profits", but in this case you can point to incredibly specific things, done to maximize profits, that directly caused this crisis. After acquiring McDonnell, Boeing went on a spree of divestments where parts plants that supplied them were spun off into independent vendors. One of the biggest of these is Spirit Aerosystems, wh…

NASA subcontracted about everything for the space program.

NASA is a government organization with different incentives, and, has arguably suffers from similar problems that Boeing is experiencing.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what. I'm sympathetic to the notion that not every Bad Thing is because of "maximizing profits", but in this case you can point to incredibly specific things, done to maximize profits, that directly caused this crisis. After acquiring McDonnell, Boeing went on a spree of divestments where parts plants that supplied them were spun off into independent vendors. One of the biggest of these is Spirit Aerosystems, wh…

NASA subcontracted about everything for the space program.

and between the end of Apollo and the emergence of "new space" companies like SpaceX, we saw them get taken for a ride by those very subcontractors with absurdly overpriced cost-plus projects that were always over budget, late and did the bare minimum to meet requirements.

Funnily, even with NASA's example, we have several instances of Boeing screwing up everything in favor of short term gains. ULA had to be 'forced' into existence by the government, because Boeing was caught conducting espionage on Lockheed Martin and was at risk of getting barred from government rocket launches (which would've left the US with only one launch service provider). They also tried to amend their bid on the Artemis lander competition, potentially after having info on others' bids leaked to them by a NASA insider. They forced ULA to severely limit the capabilities of Vulcan to not make SLS unnecessary (even tried to get people fired for it). Then, of course, we have the ongoing engineering disasters of SLS and Starliner.

I'm also not really sure how NASA fits considering that they have no monetary profit motive. They subcontract everything because that's just how the government does most of its procurement.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They didn‘t maximize profits at all [...] There is really only one thing that can cure this and that is more fierce competition Short term profits is what matter to the elite in these conglomerates. Their stock bonuses should just have a 10 year lag or something. That would align their incentives. And how could Airbus be more fierce?

> Short term profits is what matter to the elite in these conglomerates That is not true. Long-term profits are by far the best thing for the owners in a corporation. See: Berkshire Hathaway. What happened here is someone got to be in charge who did not have the brain to do the job. When you see short-termism among CEO's, that's either due to a) owners not aligning the CEO's incentives correctly due to the owners' ne…

Honestly, Boeing makes the case for returning certain companies to elite control. Mullenberg, an engineer, burned down Boeing for tens of millions today. A family that controls it wouldn’t rationally do that.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#118
post #3

[flagged]

> Worthless article.

Annoying binary black and white thinking.

United can shift the Boeing/Airbus tilt in their fleet towards Airbus going forward.

The fact that United already has some Airbus isn't the "gotcha" you think it is. Yeah, I already knew that factoid.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#119
post #5

Actions have consequences. Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits rather than allowing organic growth to follow on continued high quality engineering and services. In regulated industries, especially where safety is of utmost importance, this is exceptionally risky. They F'd around and found out, and imho the only solution is leadership and strategy changes to shrink their business and refocus on b…

It's amazing how everything on HN manages to bring focus back to Google.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#120
post #74

Also for historical context, United traces its name back to Boeing itself. “United Air and Transport Corporation” was a company that came out of operations founded by Mr Boeing. Thus for anyone that knows their aviation industry history, United saying they’ve lost faith in Boeing airplanes is a big ouch.

Not only that, United Airlines is the de facto US flag carrier (to Delta's chagrin, probably).

This is a big ouch in so many ways.

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