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Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#191

Post by KMag »

mc32 wrote: post #83
gboone wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The newer terms are more inclusive. To me it seems to exclude the only person referenced in the original form.

You’re right. It’s the nature of things, being inclusive often means excluding an other. On the other hand I’m glad we’ve all converted on one common reference for dates and don’t have one for each sphere of influence, cuz then something published in China vs Japan vs Taiwan vs Europe and the Americas vs Egypt vs… who knows what would be messy.

> I’m glad we’ve all converted on one common reference for dates

At least most places that use other calendars also keep track of the Western year in parallel.

My Thai wife was born 543 years after me, even though we were born in the same year. ("Hi, this is my wife, from the future!") Our wedding certificate contains only the Thai year. As I remember, for official purposes, Japan counts years of the current emperor's reign, along with an official name for each reign.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#192

Post by ysofunny »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #149

It's a dog toy. Put treats in it, and the dog will spend hours nudging it around trying to get the tasty treats out :-p Seriously though, it's obviously for measuring out spaghetti.

it's a human toy. ask what it is for and the humans will spend hours arguing about what purpose does it serve

I heard it was used to knit gloves somehow

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#194

Post by lproven »

Ekaros wrote: post #80
koromak wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But haven't these things been found all over the world? Like as far as Vietnam. We've found hundreds of them. "Its a cool object" doesn't quite explain its ubiquity, or the fact that they are almost identical looking despite which side of the globe their on. That suggests purpose to me.

Wheels and balls have also been found across the world. Dodecahedrons are fundamental shapes. Thus universal. And also expected size would be pretty much same. In general symmetry is pleasant. So I would expect symmetric shapes to come up when people have enough time and resources to build them, even if they have no use.

They are not symmetrical, though.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#195

Post by INTPenis »

nemo wrote: post #91
INTPenis wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any metal we find after 2000 years is a miracle. So the amount of these dodecahedrons indicate that there were a lot more in circulation at the time. 2000 years of poor and homeless people looking for any metal they can sell as scrap. That's why I don't buy the apprentice argument that always pops up in these discussions. In this case you'd be excused for saying it's some sort of ritualistic object. Because rituals a…

>Any metal we find after 2000 years is a miracle. That's not really true. There's regular finds of hoards of thousands of ancient coins that are in excellent condition, esp. Roman coins. You'll find there's an actually quite a large number of ancient metal artifacts archaeologists have discovered if you look into it. Certainly the preservation rate is very low since people tend to guard metal objects and recycle them…

But the very fact that people buried them proves how sought after they were.

And of course if something is buried, and everyone involved dies before retrieving it, then it survives. But a lot of circumstances have to line up for that to happen.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#197

Post by jcranmer »

drewcoo wrote: post #159
anentropic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron#/media/File... it's interesting that one has no holes but varying sized corner knobs instead, and 20 faces instead of 12 the objects seem related, but the purpose of the latter can't have anything to do with candles presumably

20 faces and 12 verts is an icosahedron. Both have 30 edges. Geometry magic?

The icosahedron and dodecahedron are duals of one another: each vertex of one corresponds to a face of the other and vice versa. All convex polyhedra satisfy the property that V + F = E + 2, and since the dual polyhedron conserves the quantity V + F, consequently, dual polyhedra have the same number of edges.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#199

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

thih9 wrote: post #63
mildchalupa wrote: post #16

I thought it was determined to be a glove finger knitting apparatus.

Related, video showing its use in knitting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0

Even if that's the case, some mystery remains, discussed at this point: https://youtu.be/76AvV601yJ0?si=JQi4K8w9ZvphZ1wV&t=460

Presumably you'd find similar jigs for finishing the glove nearby.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#200

Post by atoav »

SamBam wrote: post #170
imglorp wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The knitting aid is persuasive. It fits with the geography, explains the different hole sizes, and it explains the knobs. Here's one of those vids; there are many more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0

I don't really buy that theory. There's no explanation for why it needs to be this very-hard-to-cast bronze dodecahedron, instead of just a wooden board with pegs and holes, which is all that would be needed for the video above.

Why not? If it was a common item, it would be natural that there a deluxe versions for e.g. the royal household.

The cheap and simple versions would have rotted away by now.

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