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United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

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Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#51
post #9

Other than Airbus, are there any alternatives?

Chinese COMAC seems to be on the verge of selling meaningful numbers to chinese airlines. Wont be surprised if they are a very viable competitor in ~20 years which isn’t much in the aviation world where backlogs span a decade

Their planes are just rip-offs straight from Boeing blueprints with even more corners cut.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#52
post #25

"Shares of The Boeing Co. fell less than 1%." They are too big to fail. So they will fail together with the entire state. 4 domestic aircraft manufacturers of the 1960s (Lockheed, Douglas, Convair, Boeing) is now one.

Stocks can fall quite a bit before a company fails. Aviation is full of companies with huge revenue and tiny profits/valuations.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#53
post #4

"Kirby wasn’t specific about what planes the airline could acquire instead of the Max 10, but he noted that there is only one other global manufacturer of such large planes — Boeing’s European rival Airbus." Is it just me or is every player in the dramatis personae dancing around this and/or burying the lede? If they were ordering regional jets, sure, you could buy Embraer or Bombardier, I guess. But as it stands it'…

I think this is a major shot across the bow of Boeing management. To me, the fact that there really aren't timely alternatives doesn't take away from the gravity of a major airline CEO saying this.

Do you think this is good news for Boom? Honestly they could pivot from supersonic to just "small airplanes at scale made well" and they could grow into a new American industrial giant

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#54

DAMAGE CONTROL means protect the stock price, not the passengers. Contrast "CEO says: Every plane is being completely inspected, every nut and bolt and nothing is more important to United than passenger safety and confidence."

Surely stock price is directly linked to demand from airlines, and airlines are successful because of customer confidence, convenience, and price. If an airline bails on Boeing because customers refuse to fly Boeing fleets, then damage control/stock price is an abstraction of passenger's requirements.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#55
post #4

"Kirby wasn’t specific about what planes the airline could acquire instead of the Max 10, but he noted that there is only one other global manufacturer of such large planes — Boeing’s European rival Airbus." Is it just me or is every player in the dramatis personae dancing around this and/or burying the lede? If they were ordering regional jets, sure, you could buy Embraer or Bombardier, I guess. But as it stands it'…

They have to be extremely careful what they say. Boeing is considered a strategically important business to the U.S. - they supply everything from airliners to bombers to spacecraft to cruise missiles. They also create jobs all over the place - taxpayer dollars are funnelled via the pork barrel to jobs programs. The government cannot allow it to fail, and if Boeing looks bad, the government looks bad. Therefore anyon…

> government cannot allow it to fail, and if Boeing looks bad, the government looks bad

This is a myth. GM and Chrysler are also strategically important firms. They were allowed to look bad. And while they were bailed out, it was done so through bankruptcy.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#56

A better question is what will Southwest Airlines do? They exclusively run 737s as I understand it and they effectively have no choice here to beta test Boeing's garbage. I think United CEO's comment is at best a renegotiation attempt.

Boeing's garbage is at least partially a direct result of Southwest being unwilling to accept a change in type rating for the new 737.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#57
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embraer

Not for planes the size of a 737.

Why don‘t they scale up? They seem to have all the regulatory capabilities to get a commercial jet on the market already. I also never understood why e.g. China doesnm‘t just buy Embraer (or take over all their employees) and builds out from a functioning product?

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#58
post #21

Boeing should move the its HQ back to Washington state. They need to show the public that things are going to change and it starts with the executive team being next to the engineers. Microsoft had the same problem when Balmer was in charge, focus around sales and not engineering.

Are there many engineers left in Washington state? I thought they were shutting down the entire Washington state operation?

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#59
post #5

Actions have consequences. Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits rather than allowing organic growth to follow on continued high quality engineering and services. In regulated industries, especially where safety is of utmost importance, this is exceptionally risky. They F'd around and found out, and imho the only solution is leadership and strategy changes to shrink their business and refocus on b…

> Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits

Except not really. The shareholders/board decided to gut the company so they can get richer with stock buybacks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/15/bailout-c...

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#60
This whole fiasco represents a leadership f$&* up of existential scale. A lot of this started when Boeing moved its HQ away from a core production hub. Leaders tucked way in offices make a lot worse decisions than leaders close to the literal nuts and bolts of a company.

Boeing’s reputation was on the quality of its engineering and production. “If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going” was a real phrase. The current Boeing leadership has turned the company’s image of quality into the punchline of bad jokes. The only viable fix is a serious reset and sacking of most of the senior ranks to bring leadership back that understands the difference between short term profit and long term gain. This has all been sad to watch, but the flying public deserves better.

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