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FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

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Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#241
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, payroll and savings income is taxed at source and around 80-85% of people don't need to complete a tax return. You only need to complete one if you have other income, if you're self-employed with over £1000 revenue, had capital gains over £6000, or earn over £100,000. Almost everyone completes these online, and you can do it directly on the government site. For simple cases that only takes a few minutes. I…

Thanks for the explanation, I only did a quick search. Is there a capital gains tax in the UK? Do you have tax deductions? Edit: I looked it up. Yes, the UK has capital gains taxes and they must be calculated by the taxpayer. https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/reporting-and-paying-ca... There are also deductions for savings and dividends. Those deductions look a lot like the US deductions. They also (sometimes?) ha…

There used to be relatively generous yearly allowances for savings (£1,000) dividends (£2,000) and CGT (£12,300) which meant most people would be exempt and not have to fill in a tax return.

Saving interest is often paid gross but if you go over the savings allowance and don't fill in a tax return HMRC will just automatically take more tax from your payslip.

There is also a £20,000/year ISA allowance which shields investment from tax so any holdings within an ISA can be ignored for tax purposes.

However, the dividend and CGT allowances have been reduced recently as the government tries to find ways to raise more revenue without raising the headline tax rates, and the £20k ISA allowance hasn't been raised for years despite inflation.

So as it stands, in the future a lot more people will have to start filling in tax returns.

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#242
The part of me that reveres clear, concise, correct communication appreciates any effort to encourage factual correctness. However, the cynically jaded part of me concedes that this battle has already been lost - at least in the public sphere of communication (eg politics, advertising, journalism, social media, corporate comms).

Anyone paying attention already knows that anything of value you don't pay for directly will have indirect costs, most often in the form of strings attached, advertising, upsells and annoyances. Today, whenever I hear something offered for "Free" it immediately implies two things. First, any actual value on offer is relatively low (or net negative), and second, the entity offering it has made a choice to obfuscate the true cost for reasons I'd need to understand before engaging.

This means I probably don't want it and even if I might want something like the promise of it, I'd have to navigate and parse a maze of obfuscation crafted by someone who's already not being entirely upfront with me. Since A) I generally value my time (and related intangibles like vendor grief, inconsistency, etc) more than my money, and B) I've learned I'm usually not happy with the lower cost versions of things that matter to me - I've adopted a default stance of "I don't want anything that's free". It's possible I'm some kind of oddball outlier but I don't think so. In fact, I'm fairly confident a good chunk of the highly-desirable "reasonably affluent consumer" segment are similarly jaded and now associate any offer pushing "FREE" in the top-line with a negative connotation.

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#243
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, did Snopes say this was real because of a news article that contain hearsay?

Do people think the NY Times reports hearsay as fact? Here, straight from the horse's mouth: https://awrestaurants.com/blog/aw-third-pound-burger-fractio...

Based on a "focus group" discussion which are well known for selecting the brightest bunch of people who have nothing better to do than answer questions for 2 hours and get a coupon for free fries.

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#244
Good. I decided to boycott Intuit after one too many dark UI/email patterns. They lie to you in their marketing emails. To opt out you need to enter an entire page's worth of personal information (I thought there was a 1-click unsubscribe law?). Using TurboTax, I've lost count of the number of times I've gotten to the end of the process and discovered that they quietly upsold me 12 screens back, knowing that most customers just say "screw it, I'll pay the $100."

I switched to FreeTaxUSA.com last year and it was dead simple. Never going back.

Also, the only reason I used Mint was to see a net worth widget on my phone. During the forced migration to Credit Karma, halfway through being made to create an entirely new account, I found that they have no such widget. Bye.

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50% of the country believes tax is theft, and they also imagine if there were no taxes and the IRS abolished we'd somehow still continue to support an army, have a federal court system, a patent office, etc, etc, and that their state will continue to get federal subsidies. That was the entire point of Obama's speech that republican news sources and libertarians eviscerated him for: "You didn't build that". He wasn't…

Every dollar I've ever paid in federal taxes has been thrown into a black hole of debt never to be seen again, their actual spending is fueled by debasement of the currency (IE. money printing). The only purpose of taxation in such a system is to reduce inflationary pressure caused by their own malfeasance, I can't imagine they actually need the revenue since there seems to be no relationship between revenue and spen…

One party has been defunding the IRS, even though spending $1 in IRS budget returns $6 in uncollected taxes. One party even has congressmen saying the IRS should be removed entirely.

> Every dollar I've ever paid in federal taxes has been thrown into a black hole of debt never to be seen again

This contradicts what you say later: taxes are returned in the form of public services.

Back in the 50s the max tax rate (for a very few, but very rich people) was 90%. Corporations collectively contributed about half of what individual taxes did; now it is about 10%. The 2017 (?) tax bill forgave more than $1T in corporate taxes that were owed and gave some people a couple thousand dollars tax break; but while those corporate tax cuts were permanent, that same law that dropped the rate for some individuals was written to increase individual tax rates every two years and in no time those people are paying more in taxes than before.

If the Bush and Trump tax cuts for corporations and rich people had not ever happened, the debt would be going down (ignoring the extraordinary circumstances of covid).

Rich people and rich corporations can afford to get the laws written in their favor.

corporate: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FCTAX individual: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A074RC1Q027SBEA

chart showing the ratios over time: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/composition-of-fe...

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#246

Any recommendations on how to really file taxes for free (federal and state)?

Semi-dumb follow-up question. If we don't use a website service, then other than using forms, is the only option to actually find the pdfs, print out the forms, fill them in with a pen, and stuff them in an envelope? Or are there easier ways?

I use a type-writer, but otherwise: yes. Does it get any easier?

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#247

The part of me that reveres clear, concise, correct communication appreciates any effort to encourage factual correctness. However, the cynically jaded part of me concedes that this battle has already been lost - at least in the public sphere of communication (eg politics, advertising, journalism, social media, corporate comms). Anyone paying attention already knows that anything of value you don't pay for directly w…

There is a negative connotation with "FREE" to savvy consumers who understand, at least somehwat, the product or service they are buying. However, many consumers don't understand a) economics or b) what they are buying.

For example, look at all the Facebook posts from older people who repost things like "TODAY IS YOUR LUCKY DAY!!! SHARE AND YOU WILL FIND $10K TODAY!!!" They don't realize it's fake. They don't understand where that $10k comes from. There could be some secret hidden value stream built into Facebook that's promoting this. Maybe I'll find out later. Maybe I'll have to sit through a seminar for a timeshare. Maybe it will all be worth it.

The people who fall for this would fall for anything. The reason why it's so dangerous here, is that the IRS wants tax filing to be free. They've been trying to make it free, actually free, for years. And taxes are something that 100% of Americans have to do. So the market is literally 1*[entire population], annually. But these capitalists keep finding predatory ways to ignore the IRS and FTC. They just need to be fined so substantially that it wipes out a couple years profit. That's the only way the risk will no longer be worth the reward and these companies will stop.

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#248
post #79
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're standard deduction and just have a few simple sources of income, filing is easily free. Should it be electronic and pre-filled? Yes. But this idea that you need an accountant or tax prep software if you have a W-2 and a 1099 just isn't true. The forms are free.

Awesome, let's do better and have the IRS fill out your form in Feb or March, mail it to you, and if you disagree you can still file yourself. That way, 95% of cases are covered and don't have to even deal with taxes.

> mail it to you,

Corrected it for you: email it to you at your personal @gov.us email (I know it is not a thing yet).

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every dollar I've ever paid in federal taxes has been thrown into a black hole of debt never to be seen again, their actual spending is fueled by debasement of the currency (IE. money printing). The only purpose of taxation in such a system is to reduce inflationary pressure caused by their own malfeasance, I can't imagine they actually need the revenue since there seems to be no relationship between revenue and spen…

One party has been defunding the IRS, even though spending $1 in IRS budget returns $6 in uncollected taxes. One party even has congressmen saying the IRS should be removed entirely. > Every dollar I've ever paid in federal taxes has been thrown into a black hole of debt never to be seen again This contradicts what you say later: taxes are returned in the form of public services. Back in the 50s the max tax rate (for…

>One party has been defunding the IRS, even though spending $1 in IRS budget returns $6 in uncollected taxes. One party even has congressmen saying the IRS should be removed entirely.

Sure, funding the IRS increases revenue. But we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. The amount of revenue they collect is utterly massive and should be more than enough to pay for all the public services we need, but it's not because they are wildly irresponsible with it. I find it hard to swallow that the solution is to squeeze us for even more.

> Every dollar I've ever paid in federal taxes has been thrown into a black hole of debt never to be seen again

> This contradicts what you say later: taxes are returned in the form of public services.

Taxes are returned in the form of public services in a healthy functional system, one which I would like to live in. My argument is that our system is not healthy and functional. Public services are provided but taxes have little relevance in how those services are paid for, at least on a federal level. If the government has the authority to simply print all the money it needs, and does so frequently with seemingly no limits, then what is the point of taxes? As I said, I think it's just to relieve inflationary pressure caused by fundamentally irresponsible monetary policy, whereas in an ideal functioning system there would be a direct relation between revenue -> spending on public services, as you say.

As for the rest of your post I basically agree, our tax code is quite obviously the product of corporate interest. But I don't think it's fair to conflate the opinions of "50% of the country" with that of the GOP party brass corpos. I think the predominant feeling on this topic among the GOP base is that of mistrust for the IRS (which is justified considering their previous political scandals) and more general sentiments of smaller government, which is not the same thing as 'taxation is theft'

Re: FTC bans TurboTax from advertising 'free' services, calls deceptive advertising

#250
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This story has to be apocryphal, as fractions aren't _that_ rare, especially in the U.S. with its imperial system and third of a cup measurements or quarter inches or half miles and so on. I literally had an argument with a room full of US university professors about whether or not 30% and 1/3 were the same thing.

... and what was your answer?

> ... and what was your answer?

The correct one, that 30% is less than 1/3.

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