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Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#71

Post by Loughla »

krisoft wrote: post #51
anentropic wrote: post #22

A theory I saw recently suggested that they may have been used to hold candles, as night lights (could still have had some religious or ritual component too). The holes all being different diameters would then relate to different sized candles being needed to last all night, for longer and shorter nights at different times of the year. The twelve faces presumably corresponding to 12 months on the Julian calendar, whi…

> The holes all being different diameters would then relate to different sized candles being needed to last all night, for longer and shorter nights at different times of the year. I don't know. There are stranger things of course, but why would you care about that? If you need light you just burn the candle until you no longer need the light. If it gets too short you get a new candle. If you no longer need light (fo…

Could still hold, though. Rich people need things to spend money on to indicate wealth and status. Arbitrarily difficult candle holder seems like it might check that box pretty well.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#72

Post by mrob »

INTPenis wrote: post #69
mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

That just doesn't work for me for two reasons, they would have been recycled almost immediately as all metals were relatively precious, and why don't we find as many other training pieces? And of course it goes without saying that they've appeared made out of non-metal materials.

They're small enough that I can imagine people holding onto them. The hollow construction also reduces the quantity of metal used. And it's possible that we find other training pieces but don't recognize them as such, because the other ones could have practical uses.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#73

Post by tristramb »

taneq wrote: post #5

One theory (albeit contested) is that they were used as a jig to knit gloves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76AvV601yJ0

The use of these for knitting the fingers of gloves is obviously correct. It explains so many things about them:

Their distribution (northern Europe - where you might need gloves). The knobs (to loop the wool round). The differing sizes of the holes (to fit fingers of different sizes).

To say that the functions of these is unknown is just lazy journalism.

I am sure if one of these had been handed to my late grandmother, who was a keen knitter, she would have recognised what it was for immediately.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#74

Post by ransom1538 »

INTPenis wrote: post #69
mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

That just doesn't work for me for two reasons, they would have been recycled almost immediately as all metals were relatively precious, and why don't we find as many other training pieces? And of course it goes without saying that they've appeared made out of non-metal materials.

Yes and no. I respect the "they would have been recycled" argument, but, there would still be some. If you were good enough to cast a Dodecahedron, you are probably rich enough to keep your best one, to show off to all the new hipster kids.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#75

Post by wigster »

mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

my brother is a welder and he made a similar thing during his training (30 years ago)

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#77

Post by koromak »

etrautmann wrote: post #67
mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

I’m not sure why there’s always so much focus on purpose. People build objects of geometric fascination as art objects all the time. I agree with you that there need not be any religious significance here.

But haven't these things been found all over the world? Like as far as Vietnam. We've found hundreds of them.

"Its a cool object" doesn't quite explain its ubiquity, or the fact that they are almost identical looking despite which side of the globe their on. That suggests purpose to me.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#79

Post by yendor »

INTPenis wrote: post #69
mrob wrote: post #10

I like the theory that it's an examination piece to qualify as a master metalworker. Casting a flawless dodecahedron could have been a way to demonstrate your skill. The shape is somewhat arbitrary: anything that's both difficult to cast and easy to examine for quality would work, but once people started making dodecahedrons that's what people expected and it became a kind of standard.

That just doesn't work for me for two reasons, they would have been recycled almost immediately as all metals were relatively precious, and why don't we find as many other training pieces? And of course it goes without saying that they've appeared made out of non-metal materials.

They wouldn't be recycled if they were also used as a credential for quality of work. If you're a metal worker who wants to migrate to a new town, and wants to work at my forge, how do I know you can do quality work? Sure, these could be stolen but I'm assuming a master metal worker knows the right questions to ask to verify it's legitimate.

Re: Another Roman dodecahedron has been unearthed in England

#80

Post by Ekaros »

koromak wrote: post #77
etrautmann wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why there’s always so much focus on purpose. People build objects of geometric fascination as art objects all the time. I agree with you that there need not be any religious significance here.

But haven't these things been found all over the world? Like as far as Vietnam. We've found hundreds of them. "Its a cool object" doesn't quite explain its ubiquity, or the fact that they are almost identical looking despite which side of the globe their on. That suggests purpose to me.

Wheels and balls have also been found across the world.

Dodecahedrons are fundamental shapes. Thus universal. And also expected size would be pretty much same. In general symmetry is pleasant. So I would expect symmetric shapes to come up when people have enough time and resources to build them, even if they have no use.

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