Feral Minds
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Feral Minds
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Re: Feral Minds
#2Surely soon enough, if not already, we are able to test Jonze's postulate? That is to say, what is interesting here is:
"Concerned, Samantha begins discussing these feelings with other AIs — and quickly finds relief communicating at a speed and volume not intelligible to Theodore and other users."
Ref.:
Re: Feral Minds
#3Re: Feral Minds
#4Unfortunately, the hype about LLMs has generated breathless ruminations on AGI and consciousness. Dig a little deeper and there doesn't seem to be much there, as one may find that these terms are not adequately defined.
Here we see this attempt:
> First, a disclaimer. Consciousness is a notoriously slippery term, if nonetheless possessed of a certain common-sense quality. In some ways, being conscious just means being aware — aware of ourselves, of others, of the world beyond — in a manner that creates a subject apart, a self or “I,” that can observe.
Which is followed by paragraphs correctly calling out the inadequacy of the above definition. Nowhere though does the reader get a satisfactory answer: what really is consciousness?
One might say who cares if they don't define it? Well, if you don't define it, there's no point in discussing whether it exists, how it came to be, or what it comprises.
You might as well be asking the question: how close are we to quidlesmoopy?
Re: Feral Minds
#5Unfortunately, the hype about LLMs has generated breathless ruminations on AGI and consciousness. Dig a little deeper and there doesn't seem to be much there, as one may find that these terms are not adequately defined. Here we see this attempt: > First, a disclaimer. Consciousness is a notoriously slippery term, if nonetheless possessed of a certain common-sense quality. In some ways, being conscious just means bein…
I have a definition of consciousness: consciousness arises when a creature not only applies a theory of mind to others (predators, prey, and its conspecifics would all be likely others) but also applies a theory of mind to itself. (given that we have the most data on ourselves, it is not surprising that we'd have an "I", but it is a little surprising that the "I" modelled usually has such a high variance from others' models of oneself)
Re: Feral Minds
#6Unfortunately, the hype about LLMs has generated breathless ruminations on AGI and consciousness. Dig a little deeper and there doesn't seem to be much there, as one may find that these terms are not adequately defined. Here we see this attempt: > First, a disclaimer. Consciousness is a notoriously slippery term, if nonetheless possessed of a certain common-sense quality. In some ways, being conscious just means bein…
I have a definition of consciousness: consciousness arises when a creature not only applies a theory of mind to others (predators, prey, and its conspecifics would all be likely others) but also applies a theory of mind to itself. (given that we have the most data on ourselves, it is not surprising that we'd have an "I", but it is a little surprising that the "I" modelled usually has such a high variance from others'…
Great (although that's a hypothesis for a cause rather than a definition), but for any discussion with another person, you have to be sure in advance that they don't use one of the other 49 common meanings of "consciousness".
What I care about when I ask if an AI is or isn't conscious, is if it has the kind of experiences of existing that I know I have.
Why is there a feeling of sensations rather than just the sensations themselves in this body of mine? How is it that I am more than mere stimulus-response? Is it homunculi all the way down?
Re: Feral Minds
#7Article aside,what an interesting publication! Looking forward to pursuing through more articles in their archive.
Re: Feral Minds
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a definition of consciousness: consciousness arises when a creature not only applies a theory of mind to others (predators, prey, and its conspecifics would all be likely others) but also applies a theory of mind to itself. (given that we have the most data on ourselves, it is not surprising that we'd have an "I", but it is a little surprising that the "I" modelled usually has such a high variance from others'…
Great (although that's a hypothesis for a cause rather than a definition), but for any discussion with another person, you have to be sure in advance that they don't use one of the other 49 common meanings of "consciousness". What I care about when I ask if an AI is or isn't conscious, is if it has the kind of experiences of existing that I know I have. Why is there a feeling of sensations rather than just the sensat…
I found the works of Thomas Metzinger illuminating, at least in terms of human consciousness.
Re: Feral Minds
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a definition of consciousness: consciousness arises when a creature not only applies a theory of mind to others (predators, prey, and its conspecifics would all be likely others) but also applies a theory of mind to itself. (given that we have the most data on ourselves, it is not surprising that we'd have an "I", but it is a little surprising that the "I" modelled usually has such a high variance from others'…
Great (although that's a hypothesis for a cause rather than a definition), but for any discussion with another person, you have to be sure in advance that they don't use one of the other 49 common meanings of "consciousness". What I care about when I ask if an AI is or isn't conscious, is if it has the kind of experiences of existing that I know I have. Why is there a feeling of sensations rather than just the sensat…
Good luck. I've given up trying to explain qualia to people, and why they are at the core of why conscience matters. It's so frustrating. Once I heard it for the first time it seemed obvious to me and I was glad someone had already made up a word for it, but every time I try to explain it to people in the consciousness discussion people just look at me cross-eyed I must just be explaining it wrong :)
Re: Feral Minds
#10Unfortunately, the hype about LLMs has generated breathless ruminations on AGI and consciousness. Dig a little deeper and there doesn't seem to be much there, as one may find that these terms are not adequately defined. Here we see this attempt: > First, a disclaimer. Consciousness is a notoriously slippery term, if nonetheless possessed of a certain common-sense quality. In some ways, being conscious just means bein…
The only two things I can say with much confidence about consciousness:
1. I definitely have it, some of the time. (I'm not sure if anything else does, but I can't rule it out.)
2. The chances other things have it feels lower as they become more different from me. Another person may or may not have consciousness, and a rock may or may not have consciousness, but the human feels more likely to have it than the rock does.
This feels like the common sense stance for anyone who has considered solipsism in depth, and doesn't want to proclaim a unshakeable faith in things like panpsychism or non-dualism or whatever.
It's honestly a bit frustrating, because I find mathematical platonism otherwise quite compelling, but it's totally possible there's just abstract mathematical objects and oh yeah this weird fairy dust we sprinkle over certain reifications of things to ontologically privilege them. I know, Occam hates me.