Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 226 posts

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#141

Post by piva00 »

gambiting wrote: post #23
nicbou wrote: post #12

Speaking only for myself with no sense of authority: there's something in the air that I'm not the only one feeling. Something very subtle seems off. The water is a little hotter, but subtly enough to say "nah it's not like that". The way I see it, tens of thousands took to the streets to make damn sure it won't be like that on their watch. The AfD has gotten louder and stronger last year, and it's reaching further a…

It's everywhere, not just in Germany. Like you said, there's "something in the air". The rise of populism, rebirth of strong nationalism, is everywhere in Europe. I feel like wherever that tide is pushed back, it grows stronger in the background anyway. And the worst thing is, I don't really see how this could get better. Economic problems will continue to grow for at least several years, and one of the most contenio…

Fascism is a product of capitalism's crisis. It's the final breath of capitalism when the system is not working for the masses, it's counter revolutionary, it's a doubling down of the status quo into a more violent form.

Wages stagnated, inflation is eating up the last pennies of a more impoverished worker class, populism will always rise up from these conditions, and right wing populism will eventually lead to fascism.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#142

Post by i-sam »

pAllain wrote: post #127
nicbou wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that refugees are a significant part of the perceived problem, but as an immigrant, I'm on line two of that Niemöller poem and I won't wait and see where Saxon farmers draw the line. I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm definitely not feeling easy about it.

[flagged]

Being an immigrant is not walking in anyone's home. It's signing a social contract on the terms of the receiving country. You are talking about extraction of value as if the immigrants are paying taxes and adding value to their country of origin which is false. The issue that Europe is having is that the "economy" benefits a few, the metrics are skewed towards the ultra rich and whenever that happens immigrants are accused of being the issue.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#145

Post by dzhiurgis »

boffinAudio wrote: post #129
aurareturn wrote: post #47

As someone who doesn't live in Europe and never set foot in Europe, it seems like the #1 issue is immigration - both legal and refugees. Am I correct?

The #1 issue for Europe is the participation in the USA/5-eyes war crimes regime, and the subsequent culpability for the heinous acts committed by the West on the very nations where Europe is getting a majority of its refugees from. Middle-East refugees are coming here to EUROPE to escape OUR wars. Until we prosecute the war criminals involved, the immigration issue is not going to resolve. Make Damascus Great Again,…

Interesting emotional spin, but they aren't really escaping our wars - they running away from dictators they elected

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#146

Post by suslik »

patates wrote: post #72
hnhg wrote: post #10

Meanwhile the AfD is looking to at least double their share of the votes perhaps to almost 25% of the electorate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_G...

As an immigrant here in Germany I wonder if I should perhaps start to think about an exit strategy if this trend continues.

The answer is, unfortunately, yes, you probably should. I am in the same boat and have an expectation to receive the sharp end of the stick eventually. Not that the exit strategy is self-evident...

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#147

Post by boffinAudio »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #145
boffinAudio wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The #1 issue for Europe is the participation in the USA/5-eyes war crimes regime, and the subsequent culpability for the heinous acts committed by the West on the very nations where Europe is getting a majority of its refugees from. Middle-East refugees are coming here to EUROPE to escape OUR wars. Until we prosecute the war criminals involved, the immigration issue is not going to resolve. Make Damascus Great Again,…

Interesting emotional spin, but they aren't really escaping our wars - they running away from dictators they elected

No, they really are escaping OUR wars, which we are fighting because we are using the presence of 'dictators' in the region as an excuse to expand our control over the Middle East and demolish nation after nation, per plans made by PNAC/CNAC criminals decades ago.

The Western nations have a LOT of innocent blood on our hands, more so than any dictator you might care to identify as your hated enemy/Emmanuel Goldstein figure, used to justify further atrocities by our nations.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#148

Post by gambiting »

bitcharmer wrote: post #70
gambiting wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's everywhere, not just in Germany. Like you said, there's "something in the air". The rise of populism, rebirth of strong nationalism, is everywhere in Europe. I feel like wherever that tide is pushed back, it grows stronger in the background anyway. And the worst thing is, I don't really see how this could get better. Economic problems will continue to grow for at least several years, and one of the most contenio…

It's worth to look at the underlying cause for these sentiments gaining popularity and support in recent years. I'm pretty sure to some degree it has to do with native European populations being unhappy about illegal immigration and the problems arising from that. And before you call me a racist: mainstream media kept redefining the meaning of the word refugee for a while now. For example: refugees are expected to st…

>> For example: refugees are expected to stop at the nearest safe haven and not traverse multiple countries to end up in the one with the biggest social benefits. Also, tonnes of young men arriving from war-torn regions with disproportionate ratio of women and children. News outlets advertising these groups as doctors and engineers which at this point is a meme.

The thing is, all of the above is just noise. It's not relevant to the problem at large. Even if they were all PhD educated doctors it would still leave the core of the issue to address - there's SO MANY people coming, and more will come in the next decade. All predictions on this point way up - be it do to instability in various regions, war, or things like actual literal depletion of fresh water sources and food, plus temperatures raising to the point where people are dying and crops can't grow in several African and middle eastern regions.

Getting into whether these people are men, children, skilled workers or uneducated farmers is pointless - the question is what are we going to do(as European Union) about 1M+ arriving here every year. We are trying to do the humane thing, and it's clearly resulting in a massive increase in populism and nationalism everywhere because the native populations don't like it - again, there is zero point in even getting into whether that's justified or not - the question is, where do we go from here. Because the way I see if, if something isn't done urgently we will end up in a situation where the people in power do what the louder and louder groups say we should - and that's a terrifying vision of the world.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#149

Post by nvm0n2 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #41
nicbou wrote: post #12

Speaking only for myself with no sense of authority: there's something in the air that I'm not the only one feeling. Something very subtle seems off. The water is a little hotter, but subtly enough to say "nah it's not like that". The way I see it, tens of thousands took to the streets to make damn sure it won't be like that on their watch. The AfD has gotten louder and stronger last year, and it's reaching further a…

"The AfD has gotten louder and stronger last year, and it's reaching further and further into other parties' voter bases" They reached into actual daily politics of the government - because Chancellor Scholz now also say things like "we have to start massivly kicking immigrants out" https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/olaf-scholz-ueber...

Yes, and the notorious meeting where the AfD supposedly planned to evict everyone:

1. Wasn't an AfD meeting

2. Had CDU politicians there too

Reality is, the AfD's positions are popular and Scholz tries to respond to that, whilst also claiming his opponents are a threat to democracy. But that is a risky strategy. After all, if one party can make a policy that another party cannot then campaign to reverse, then who is really dismantling democracy?

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#150

Post by hnbad »

baq wrote: post #42
shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, Kremlin supported AfD is having a success. Putin is happily destroying european unity while we let their propaganda hit us in social media daily. [1] The Russia induced Syrian migrant wave of 2015 sure helped undermine the current right wing popularity rise. [2] And Russias involvement in making brexit happen... [3] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement 2: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-weapon…

Kremlin supports everyone who is useful for them, Schroedder wasn't involved in AfD (last time I checked, which was a long time ago, anyway)

Schroeder isn't far-right, no. Schroeder was a bit like a softer version of what pre-Obama era Trump was expected to be like as a politician (i.e. when he was still expected to run as a Democrat). He openly has financial ties to Gazprom these days (or at least before the invasion of Ukraine - haven't heard much from him since) and seems to have spent most of his time after being chancellor schmoozing with oligarchs. Of course none of that demonstrates any corruption because his close ties to Russian money and his pro-Russian economical stance as a chancellor are entirely separate and there's no reason to suspect any conflict of interest. /s
Post reply on HN