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The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

hawaiiseaglider.org

31–40 of 122 posts

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#31
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

Which inter-island ferry are you referring to? Hawaii doesn't have them.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#32
post #18
post #9

Wasn't there a ferry transportation service that got canned due to environmental concerns? Seems hard to imagine planes doing better on that front.

its a ground effect plane - they can be a bit more efficient vs traditional ferries and airplanes especially in a role were it just relatively short hops between islands. Also since its effectively float-able by design it has the potential to be very safe even if its propulsion breaks during the trip. you could just send another plane to take the passengers off then take the broken plane home pulled by a ship. This c…

The channels between the Hawaiian islands can be very rough. I'd be curious how well these things would do if they lost power.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#33
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

I'm not sure where you're getting this. There are no inter-island ferries anymore in Hawaii, except for the short tourist hops from Maui to Lanai and Molokai. Much longer trips between the big island, Maui and Oahu were possible for a couple years up until 2009 on the Superferry, but it closed after years of legal wrangling over environmental issues.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#34
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

>> Probably just a tourist attraction.

Yes and no. One the one hand, absolutely a tourist attraction. Its projected to be cheaper than flying, and hopes to be a lot less hassle. (Expect pushback from the airlines. )

However small capacity, cheap, accessible transport is a boon for islanders living in archipelago. For starters you're not bound to islands big enough for an airport.

Given that the vehicle is electric, and hawaii has abundant solar energy, it could end up being very cost effective.

So what starts small, and touristy, might end up being mainstream and useful in lots of similar (ie island) contexts.

On the environmental front I expect the usual "complain about anything new" crowd, coupled with push-back from existing operators. But it's hard to see how this does more environmental harm than planes or boats.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#35
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

The Ekranoplan, or so-called Caspian Sea Monster, was truly massive, and could no doubt fit several of these puny tourist versions in its hold. For these kind of endeavours you'd really want to go big or home - there's a limited enough tourist market if all you're planning to transport is some sightseers without any luggage! Something that could take a few shipping containers, automobiles, passengers etc. however, yo…

> The Ekranoplan, or so-called Caspian Sea Monster, was truly massive,

Ekranoplan is a class of vehicles; the "Caspian Sea Monster" was an individual experimental ekranoplan (the Lun-class was a later large combat ekranoplan, with a short career.)

> For these kind of endeavours you'd really want to go big or home

I don't know, I think for commercial ventures without bottomless military funding backing, starting small makes sense, there's lots of places small tourist ekranoplans could find a market.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#36
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

I'm not sure where you're getting this. There are no inter-island ferries anymore in Hawaii, except for the short tourist hops from Maui to Lanai and Molokai. Much longer trips between the big island, Maui and Oahu were possible for a couple years up until 2009 on the Superferry, but it closed after years of legal wrangling over environmental issues.

Big Island never got superferry. Back in the 70s there was Seaflite on Boeing hydroplanes that was short lived as well.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#37
post #10
post #4

Is this like an Ekranoplane EV?

Yes, this is the craft, the Regent Viceroy sea glider: 12+2 crew, 3500 lbs payload, up to 156 nm range, 156 kt. It can fly an hour, might be okay for island hopping. https://www.regentcraft.com/seagliders/viceroy

When I go to the web sites of some of their "customers", there's no mention of this thing. Regent's own site says "Seagliders have 160 nautical mile range with existing battery technology (upgradeable to over 400 nautical mile range with next generation battery technology) and will enter service by 2025. Full-scale prototypes will begin human flight trials by 2024. Specifications and configuration are subject to change, images may not reflect the final vehicle design."

I wonder what new battery technology they plan to use that they think will provide a 250% range increase. The 180mph top speed is impressive, but you're not going to be able to operate at that speed around other sea traffic.

You need just the right situation for this thing - docks not too far apart, but far enough apart that an ordinary ferry is too slow. An area with so little sea traffic that it can go full speed. Long Beach to Catalina Island is out; you can't zip these things across a major shipping lane full of container ships. Wall Street to the Hamptons has the same problem. Not sure about inter-island in Hawaii. Probably more useful in areas with lots of small populated islands. East Asia, maybe.

This thing is certainly buildable, but it seems to be more in the private jet category than a major transportation system.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#38
post #31
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

Which inter-island ferry are you referring to? Hawaii doesn't have them.

see Maui to Lanai ferry https://go-lanai.com/

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#39
post #25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its a ground effect plane - they can be a bit more efficient vs traditional ferries and airplanes especially in a role were it just relatively short hops between islands. Also since its effectively float-able by design it has the potential to be very safe even if its propulsion breaks during the trip. you could just send another plane to take the passengers off then take the broken plane home pulled by a ship. This c…

Can a ground effect plane really be more efficient than a ferry or a hyperfoil? It just seems like a boat that can carry cargo etc would be useful infrastructure instead of a fast taxi service. Pour que no los dos perhaps... To be clear, what I read about the ferry service being shut down made it sound like Hawaii has some dysfunction preventing good and normal things from happening, just sounds like this would be le…

Efficiency is not the only metric here. Water has a lot of friction. That's why boats are relatively slow and use a lot of fuel or electricity. A ferry with hundreds of miles range would need a huge battery. With distances between islands being tens to hundreds of miles (depending on the route), the speed also matters. For cargo that matters less obviously.

This thing is electric and flies over the water. So it uses way less power per mile than if it was a boat in the water. And likewise because it flies in ground effect, it has an advantage over electrical planes as well. Hydrofoils might be close enough but still use more power and are probably also a lot slower.

The cost of the electricity is less of a concern here since electricity is cheap. The main efficiency related concern is the impact it has on range as batteries are expensive and heavy. Distances in Hawaii are not enormous but long enough that you'd have to worry about this. So, given that this thing has the needed range, it should be quite attractive as an alternative to planes. Cheaper and cleaner to operate (presumably) and quick enough that the difference doesn't matter. And a lot faster than ferries or hydrofoils.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#40
post #24

It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…

> It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several.

No, this is a combination ekranoplan and hydrofoil. I think whether it's classified as the "world's first" is going to depend on what counts as operational, but it's certainly much less common than ekranoplans.

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