Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling • Hacker News Board

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#21

Post by spacebacon » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 2:55 AM UTC

i-use-nixos-btw wrote: post #9

> While no immediate practical applications exist, the researchers envision enhanced efficiency in micromotors, microscale cargo transport, and materials that can self-assemble or self-repair. Everyone who has ever written a grant application will recognise this wording.

Meh, if self-assembling, self-repairing materials forming a swarm of nano bots was going to take over the world it would have already happened elsewhere in the universe and proliferated everywhere by now. instead we have biology. The actual dominate force in our dimension that did proliferate.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#22

Post by epgui » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 2:58 AM UTC

ptcrash wrote: post #16

i-use-nixos-btw wrote: post #9

> While no immediate practical applications exist, the researchers envision enhanced efficiency in micromotors, microscale cargo transport, and materials that can self-assemble or self-repair. Everyone who has ever written a grant application will recognise this wording.

Would you care to share for those of us who haven’t written a grant application before?

It’s the biggest stretch possible without it being technically dishonest. Everyone knows it: the researchers know it and gag a little as they write it, and the grant reviewers know it but pretty much require it without really ever saying that they require it (competitive landscape and all).

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#23

Post by epgui » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:00 AM UTC

lelandbatey wrote: post #15

i-use-nixos-btw wrote: post #9

> While no immediate practical applications exist, the researchers envision enhanced efficiency in micromotors, microscale cargo transport, and materials that can self-assemble or self-repair. Everyone who has ever written a grant application will recognise this wording.

I'm curious what the meaning behind the recognition is. Is it "this has applications potentially anywhere!" Is it actually code for "very dangerous military applications, DARPA please pay attention to me!"

It’s code for: we are really interested in continuing to research this and we believe it’s important (for reasons that nobody will really understand apart from the other 5-6 world experts), so we are making this statement as much of a marketing stretch as possible without it being technically dishonest.

Getting research funding is just a brutally competitive game.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#24

Post by andrewflnr » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:02 AM UTC

The phys.org article and science paper text are both impenetrable for different reasons (though I don't blame the paper). Can anyone explain this result like I have a college degree but not in physics? I'm especially interested in what the actual difference in "microscopic" process is between heating and cooling.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#25

Post by labster » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:03 AM UTC

spacebacon wrote: post #21

i-use-nixos-btw wrote: post #9

> While no immediate practical applications exist, the researchers envision enhanced efficiency in micromotors, microscale cargo transport, and materials that can self-assemble or self-repair. Everyone who has ever written a grant application will recognise this wording.

Meh, if self-assembling, self-repairing materials forming a swarm of nano bots was going to take over the world it would have already happened elsewhere in the universe and proliferated everywhere by now. instead we have biology. The actual dominate force in our dimension that did proliferate.

Do you have any evidence that us biologicals are not an outlier other than the anthropic principle? Maybe our solar system is in the machines’ nature preserve sector.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#26

Post by foobarbecue » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:05 AM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #20

ptcrash wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to share for those of us who haven’t written a grant application before?

The writer can not imagine any realistic application for the foreseeable future. But hey, nothing is impossible.

... lots of things are impossible?

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#27

Post by hsuduebc2 » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:06 AM UTC

extractionmech wrote: post #7

bmitc wrote: post #3

I always feel a little stupid or strange reading a lot of these science headlines and introductions. I wasn't aware that people considered there to be a symmetry between heating and cooling. I thought that the entire point of thermodynamics is that they are asymmetric. Even the article mentions that it's been known that heating is more efficient than cooling.

> On the other hand, cooling at the microscopic level involves the release of energy from individual particles, resulting in a dampening of their motion. This process corresponds to the system losing energy, leading to a decrease in the intensity of particle movement. It actually makes sense, doesn’t it? Heating the object adds energy constructively. In cooling, energy removed from one particle may in fact be absorbe…

And heating in that coming only from outside. Hah. I never realized that.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#28

Post by AndrewKemendo » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:06 AM UTC

andrewflnr wrote: post #24

The phys.org article and science paper text are both impenetrable for different reasons (though I don't blame the paper). Can anyone explain this result like I have a college degree but not in physics? I'm especially interested in what the actual difference in "microscopic" process is between heating and cooling.

They experimentally demonstrated that it takes significantly more energy to move a microparticle the same distance when cooled than the amount of energy it would take when heated.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#29

Post by kccqzy » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:07 AM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #13

kccqzy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert at all, but from my understanding, the ideal building is one that has so much insulation that its interior is kept at a set temperature with very little cooling and heating needed.

You still need to get rid of heat generated from inside buildings and potentially deal with the impact of ventilation.

There's heat recovery ventilation.

Re: Scientists report asymmetry between heating and cooling

#30

Post by wredue » Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 3:10 AM UTC

i-use-nixos-btw wrote: post #9

> While no immediate practical applications exist, the researchers envision enhanced efficiency in micromotors, microscale cargo transport, and materials that can self-assemble or self-repair. Everyone who has ever written a grant application will recognise this wording.

Erm so?

No tech would ever be developed or furthered without exploring possibilities. Huge swathes of process and tech is developed purely on just trying things.

HNs recent anti-science propaganda is getting pretty out of hand.