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Riot Games laying off 11%

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Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#121

Post by irjustin »

rapind wrote: post #108
irjustin wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no indication as to how Dylan will actually be held accountable for the decisions that ultimately led to this. I believe you're reading the sentence differently than how it's being conveyed. Dylan is talking about the decision to layoff will improve the company for the future. If it does not then the board should "hold him accountable" and remove him. You're hoping that Dylan gets punished for being forced to…

OP stated specifically (which you quote) “the decisions that ultimately led to this”. So… > You're hoping that Dylan gets punished for being forced to layoff employees. Seems to intentionally misconstrue what OP said.

I'll need you to point out where I'm misconstruing OP because it still reads, to me, that I interpreted OP's desires.

That he wants "accountability for why there are layoffs".

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#122

Post by xyst »

madrox wrote: post #69
xyst wrote: post #58

> … We want to make sure Rioters who are leaving us this week have a bit of time to identify and unwind any personal info or accounts that may be tied to their Riot email addresses. TIL: people of recent generations use work e-mails for personal usage. I have only seen this phenomena with older generations when they worked for a single company their entire life until or up to retirement.

It can vary a lot by industry and how much of your identity is wrapped up in your job...or how much prestige the domain after the @ has. I saw it all the time in entertainment. Now that I work at a fintech...not so much.

unless it’s my own company, I’ll never mix personal with work emails.

I already know these companies archive and search this shit. Last thing I need is my personal emails ending up in some email dump (ie, epic vs Apple)

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#123

Post by irjustin »

noobermin wrote: post #107
irjustin wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no indication as to how Dylan will actually be held accountable for the decisions that ultimately led to this. I believe you're reading the sentence differently than how it's being conveyed. Dylan is talking about the decision to layoff will improve the company for the future. If it does not then the board should "hold him accountable" and remove him. You're hoping that Dylan gets punished for being forced to…

Was he also forced to over hire? Will anyone face consequences for that?

I'm not trying to argue that. I'm pointing out what Dylan said he is accountable for is not what OP believes/claims Dylan is accountable for.

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#124

Post by shaneprrlt »

eganist wrote: post #12

It's a decent severance package, honestly. But, as usual, > As CEO, I’m accountable for the changes we’re making and where we’re headed in the future. So, I think it’s important for me to share how we got here and how the next few days will work. I see no indication as to how Dylan will actually be held accountable for the decisions that ultimately led to this.

All they mean by that is if you want to be mad at someone be mad at him.

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#125

Post by BizarreByte »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #99
imgabe wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, someone who gets laid off is not a victim. It's a known part of the deal of having a job. You might decide to quit and leave the employer. The employer might decide they don't need you anymore and lay you off. You both have that option. You know this going in and you both are supposed to make arrangements to be able to deal with this possibility.

Unemployment played a large impact in my parents divorce. Which pretty much haunted me until 25. Unemployment is also the largest contributer to male suicide in the entire world. So while they are not victims of a crime or mistreatment, they are certainly victims of circumstance.

This is all true, but acknowledging the harms caused to lives by layoffs is unpopular with the bootlicking type that's so prominent on HN.

People are right to want to see real, impactful consequences for leaders who "take full responsibility" because if they in fact are taking it, they're taking responsibility the bad choices and mismanagement that lead to the layoffs and the consequences of said layoffs.

People are tired of leadership huffing their own farts, posting a teary eyed message, and continuing their lives like nothing ever happened.

If I fucked up and had an adverse effect on hundreds, possibly thousands of lives tomorrow I'd be fired on the spot, rightfully so too.

> Unemployment is also the largest contributer to male suicide in the entire world.

Imagine how many people have already tried, or succeeded as a direct result of layoffs in the last year as a direct consequence of mass layoffs. It's sickening to think about.

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#126

Post by [deleted] »

ninjaK4t wrote: post #84
imgabe wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, someone who gets laid off is not a victim. It's a known part of the deal of having a job. You might decide to quit and leave the employer. The employer might decide they don't need you anymore and lay you off. You both have that option. You know this going in and you both are supposed to make arrangements to be able to deal with this possibility.

This attitude of shrug and say “that’s how it works” seems common with older accounts. You know going into this the next generation can come along and change the rules. Maybe the past should have thought about that before having kids shrug Physics doesn’t put an obligation on us to serve the elders catechisms and chants. It does empower us to overwhelm through strength and raw numbers. Throwing up their hands is not…

[deleted]

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#127

Post by wegfawefgawefg »

BizarreByte wrote: post #125
wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment played a large impact in my parents divorce. Which pretty much haunted me until 25. Unemployment is also the largest contributer to male suicide in the entire world. So while they are not victims of a crime or mistreatment, they are certainly victims of circumstance.

This is all true, but acknowledging the harms caused to lives by layoffs is unpopular with the bootlicking type that's so prominent on HN. People are right to want to see real, impactful consequences for leaders who "take full responsibility" because if they in fact are taking it, they're taking responsibility the bad choices and mismanagement that lead to the layoffs and the consequences of said layoffs. People are…

I think the fed has a lot to do with the layoffs.

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#128

Post by imgabe »

Apocryphon wrote: post #111
imgabe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily disagree, but we're getting into the weeds here. My point is just that choosing to voluntarily end a business arrangement, within the the terms of the agreement, does not constitute "victimizing" someone. Otherwise, the employer could claim they're a victim when an employee quits. A store could claim they're a victim if a customer starts shopping at a different store, and so on. It's ridiculous. T…

The way I see it, mass layoffs are one of those situations where it feels unjust. A company might have acted incompetently, even recklessly, leading to people’s lives get disrupted. Are the executives culpable or were they victims of economic fortunes? Who knows? Either way, their positions often don’t change afterwards, and the companies stock price will usually rise as expenses fall with their workforce. So you hav…

Sure things can feel all sorts of ways, but an initial gut reaction is not often the best one. People can choose to see themselves as a victim or they can choose to see themselves as having agency. Deciding that feelings are immutable things that can't be touched by reason is a choice too.

A layoff can prompt suffering or it can just be a blip between jobs depending on how you prepared someone is for it. A person who chooses to exercise agency is more likely to take steps to prepare because they don't feel they're helplessly at mercy of forces they can't control. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#129

Post by Apocryphon »

imgabe wrote: post #128
Apocryphon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, mass layoffs are one of those situations where it feels unjust. A company might have acted incompetently, even recklessly, leading to people’s lives get disrupted. Are the executives culpable or were they victims of economic fortunes? Who knows? Either way, their positions often don’t change afterwards, and the companies stock price will usually rise as expenses fall with their workforce. So you hav…

Sure things can feel all sorts of ways, but an initial gut reaction is not often the best one. People can choose to see themselves as a victim or they can choose to see themselves as having agency. Deciding that feelings are immutable things that can't be touched by reason is a choice too. A layoff can prompt suffering or it can just be a blip between jobs depending on how you prepared someone is for it. A person who…

Feeling like a victim, doing something about one’s predicament, making preparations to prevent it from happening again, harboring a grievance, refusing to accept the status quo - one can do all of this and more. People are complex and multi-task.

Re: Riot Games laying off 11%

#130

Post by sarchertech »

imgabe wrote: post #81
sarchertech wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure and it’s probably a bad idea to walk alone in bad areas of town at night. That doesn’t mean that if you get shot while doing so that you aren’t a victim.

The company is not mugging anyone. They are exercising their right to end a voluntary association. This is a perfectly valid choice that either party of the employment relationship may make. If you usually shop at grocery store A and you decide you don't want to any more and shop at grocery store B instead, you're not "victimizing" grocery store A.

No one said that a company is mugging anyone. The point of the analogy is that failure to prepare doesn’t preclude being a victim.

Most societies recognize that the employer to employee relationship is unbalanced in favor of the employer in a way that consumer to grocery store isn’t.

Unemployment insurance, and severance requirements wouldn’t be necessary if the relationship were really the equally balanced market transaction you think that it is.

Even the executives who do the laying off recognize the harm they are causing. I’ve been on calls with CEOs who were crying because they recognized (or wanted to appear that they recognized) the harm they were causing even if they thought it was justified.

Victim is a perfectly reasonable word to describe the people on the receiving end of that harm.

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