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Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#151
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't cancer rates tend to correlate positively with number of cells?

Quoting wiki [0]: "Peto's paradox is the observation that, at the species level, the incidence of cancer does not appear to correlate with the number of cells in an organism. For example, the incidence of cancer in humans is much higher than the incidence of cancer in whales, despite whales having more cells than humans. If the probability of carcinogenesis were constant across cells, one would expect whales to have…

Quoting a bit more topically from the same article:

>Within members of the same species, cancer risk and body size appear to be positively correlated, even once other risk factors are controlled for.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#152
post #71
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not consistent across species because different species have different mechanisms for averting tumor growth. But within species (certainly among humans, and I'm pretty sure also among others), more cells means more opportunities for something to go wrong and so more cancer.

Counterpoint: elephants.

Do larger elephants have less cancer then smaller elephants? If not, that's not a counterpoint.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not important. I'm working off of US polling data. See sister comments for reasoning. Everyone that is calling me laughable and "haven't looked at the data" has clearly not themselves.

I’m not calling you “laughable” I’m saying that the data doesn’t matter. We lost Roe, there’s no reason to believe that ugly politics won’t seek to roll back Obergefell too given the opportunity. These people don’t give a shit what the majority think.

Sorry, I'm not saying __you__ are saying my claim is laughable, I'm saying "people" are[0]. The fact of the matter is 2/3 responses I got were certain I'm wrong with providing no evidence (@Georgelemental's link is not backed by data, only shows one plot related to belief in god, and is really just a socialist propaganda article that is shoehorning economic discussion into cultural that creates a premise that would validate my claim but contradicts their own (if socialism solves the issues, then it isn't about age... Though I'll agree that economic factors are important for estimating rate of cultural change)).

I agree with your point, but to be clear, it is not contrary to what I claimed. My claim is about how ethical values change faster than people age. See the reply in [0] or the linked comment there. The claim shouldn't be controversial because it is ridiculous to believe that your beliefs become fixed at some certain age. The fallacy is that people will think "well I update my beliefs but others don't" (i.e. I'm Bayesian, but others are immutable). You're not that unique.

Certainly this change can go in any direction. It is also a common fallacy to believe younger = liberal while older = conservative. While there is correlation, there is not much to suggest causation. Especially considering there are young people that are Republicans and many old people that are Democrats. We can argue nuance, but that's a different claim. I don't think most people have a good understanding of the demographics of voters[1] and instead focus on what data they want to see. Some of that complexity may be illustrated in looking at Figure 3 (education) closely. The most apparent differential is graduate level education. If you look at the top part carefully you'll see that there's a subtle distinction between completion of a college education vs not and the main difference is in graduate education, which is a much smaller number of people. The graph can be hard to read because the size of each bin is directly proportional to the education level (largest bin is H.S. (~80% of Americans) or less and postgrad is smallest (~5% of Americans if counting professional degrees)). Also take specific note at the differentials in the bottom plot as there is inferential race based data.

Basically, I'm saying it's a bit complex and people are trying to overly simplify the problem. I even think your claim of coast vs central is a point, but I'm not sure it really discredits the claim which is independent of party affiliation or if someone is rural or urban (which is highly correlated with cost vs central).

Oversimplification won't give you an approximate answer, but often will lead you in the wrong direction.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39082963

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/demographic-...

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as just a thing of ensuring the species, a la Elon. But even if you do, there are countless other scenarios it guards against - self annihilation via nuclear weapon, bioweapons or bioweapons research accident, any of the zillion astronomical phenomena that could screw out atmosphere (like a gamma ray burst, as hypothesized for a cause of one the great mass extinction events), a super volcano explosion…

Getting the first human group on Mars does indeed sound like an inspiring goal. But getting the second or tenth group there sounds quite uninspiring. Remember, after some people landed on the Moon, the novelty wore off rapidly and taxpayers rapidly lost interest. For Mars this problem is even greater -- we already sent a lot of robots to Mars, we got tons of high quality photographs from there, better than anything w…

This isn't quite what happened with the Moon landing at all. Even throughout the Apollo program, it was relatively unpopular. A large minority were exceptionally happy about it, but you have to remember this was also the era of Vietnam, race politics, and more. And that led to a lot of opposition to things like spending billions of dollars on space that could be spent on [x]. Like today. But what happened is that after Nixon defacto cancelled the space program in 1972, support for space began to grow dramatically. It turns out that people looking back didn't quite realize what they had, until it was gone.

I'm sure there was also the gradual realization, conscious or not, that space is also one of the very few ventures where you get out of it what you put into it. Spend $10 billion on SpaceX, and we'll have ships headed to Mars to establish the first infrastructure of human civilization there. By contrast you can't just buy your way to a good education system, or spend away social problems. Spend it on most other things and you're going to see a relatively negligible positive impact. Spend it on our favorite way to waste money (and with orders of magnitude larger sums), geopolitics, and you'll likely see an overall negative impact.

I don't really see NASA playing a meaningful role in the future of space. Their role in the present, outside of funding, is already quite negligible. They lack consistent leadership/direction, and are driven by congress - who is driven by graft. The SLS (NASA's new rocket - made by Boeing/Lockheed) alone has hoovered up tens of billions of dollars, to one day hope to construct a rocket that already isn't competitive against a Falcon Heavy. At the same time SpaceX is constructing a ship which will revolutionize space, again. China has already designed, built, and launched a new space station into space (as ours continues to deteriorate), and so on. The systems and motivations which drove NASA to epic success in the 60s simply no longer exist in our public sector.

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The other things sound reasonable, but seem largely driven by a lack of knowledge - which I am not directing at you, but the authors in the podcast you linked. For instance you don't need to live deep underground to protect from radiation. One of the best shields against radiation is hydrogen. So one of the ways we'll likely protect against space weather on the way to Mars is by using the water storage on the ship as a shield. On Mars igloos, as odd as it sound, would make beasts of cheaply constructible radiation proofed housing, for but one example. You'd also conveniently be right next to basically infinite sources of water.

I'm happy to get into the other stuff as well, but this post is already turning into a novel!

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