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Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

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Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#151

Post by ionwake »

trust_bt_verify wrote: post #86
ionwake wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I just mentioned it was uncommon due to location I had no idea someone was going to reply with links to articles about the benefits of male circumcision, I felt compelled to reply as a result. But it is a fair enough comment to say I should stay on track when I called you out on it too ( I edited that out as I felt it was a bit rude to comment on your attitude ). Regarding Ghana I dont think you underst…

Do not worry as that is not what I meant by flair, I would never suggest that you look cool. Especially after ragging on the good people of Ghana.

lol

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#152

Post by foofie »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #146
foofie wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No true scottsman would ever have perpetrated such a scam. I'm not referring to the scam. I'm referring to not abiding by basic tenets of the Christian faith.

Some members of _your faith_ perpetrated a scam, and you're trying to deny their membership in your group. Sure you can make up whatever reason you want to do that. That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Just make some shit up.

> Some members of _your faith_ (...)

It's not my faith. Also, televangelists aren't christian either. Again, those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion.

> That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument.

Either you haven't got the point or you're just trying to be contrarian. I think the point I made is clear and easy to understand. I won't repeat myself.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#153

Post by nickpsecurity »

muglug wrote: post #64
nickpsecurity wrote: post #48

Followers of Jesus Christ are commanded and equipped to test prophets rather than blindly believing them. Here's God's Word on that: "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, “Let’s go after other gods” (which you have not known) “and let’s serve them,” you shall not listen to the words of tha…

The verses from Deuteronomy aren’t a clear-cut condemnation, because they refer to following other gods vs the God of the old testament. Deuteronomy was transcribed at a time when there were a ton of potential gods for the Israelites to follow. The Bible also has lots of stories of people taking incredible risks to follow the leaders God chose for them, so I'm not sure it has great advice for biblically-minded invest…

In His Word, God says He never changes. His character remains the same. They lived by the Law with its morals.

With that in mind, the Deuteronomy passage says that anyone claiming to be a prophet, but contradicting God's existing Word (eg commands), is a liar. Most people falsely claiming to be prophets have poor character, be ego/money centered, people pleasers, often contradict the Word, cherry-pick what serves them, and/or fail in their predictions or miracles (see Deut. 18). The Deut. 13 test is even easier today since we have the whole Word, including Jesus' and Apostles' ministry, to test them with.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#154

Post by muglug »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #153
muglug wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The verses from Deuteronomy aren’t a clear-cut condemnation, because they refer to following other gods vs the God of the old testament. Deuteronomy was transcribed at a time when there were a ton of potential gods for the Israelites to follow. The Bible also has lots of stories of people taking incredible risks to follow the leaders God chose for them, so I'm not sure it has great advice for biblically-minded invest…

In His Word, God says He never changes. His character remains the same. They lived by the Law with its morals. With that in mind, the Deuteronomy passage says that anyone claiming to be a prophet, but contradicting God's existing Word (eg commands), is a liar. Most people falsely claiming to be prophets have poor character, be ego/money centered, people pleasers, often contradict the Word, cherry-pick what serves the…

If you give to others, you will be given a full amount in return. It will be packed down, shaken together, and spilling over into your lap. The way you treat others is the way you will be treated. (Luke 6:38)

You and I know this verse is talking about forgiveness, but the Bible contains very many verses that can, out of context, be used to justify a great many evils.

Back to your original point:

> Followers of Jesus Christ are commanded and equipped to test prophets rather than blindly believing them.

Recent history shows us that followers of Jesus also make spectacularly good marks for anyone with a good sales pitch and some memorised lines of New Testament teaching.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#155

Post by 15457345234 »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #141
15457345234 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a certain extent participation in organised religion is an indicator of the propensity of the subject to be manipulated.

So is participation in cryptocurrency.

agree

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#156

Post by toyg »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #128
toyg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muhammad and Siddharta are dead too.

But our prophet Muhammad pbuh doesn’t make money. There is no tax or obligatory donation in an Islamic state. Every wealthy Muslim is required to find a poor person and give 1/40 of their wealth to them every year, and we do this ourselves where I am. No authority is involved.

Despite not really wanting to go into a historic or theological debate, I can't help but notice that the guy went on to be an actual king of sorts - so there definitely was something in it for him, at the time.

I do agree that, overall, the formal structure of Islamic clerical organisations looks somewhat more horizontal (look ma, no pope!), and precepts towards charity look more stringent than the average "try to be good" message of other religions; but it's hard to deny that there are - and were - a lot of very temporal benefits accruing towards people of power under Islamic rule. Some rulers even derive their legitimacy from dynastic relationships to the prophet - that's worth a lot of money...

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#157

Post by baobabKoodaa »

foofie wrote: post #152
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some members of _your faith_ perpetrated a scam, and you're trying to deny their membership in your group. Sure you can make up whatever reason you want to do that. That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Just make some shit up.

> Some members of _your faith_ (...) It's not my faith. Also, televangelists aren't christian either. Again, those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion. > That's the basic way of implementing a "no true scottsman" argument. Either you haven't got the point or you're just trying to be contrarian. I think the point I made is clear and easy to understand. I won'…

> those who fail to follow the basic tenets of a religion cannot claim to be followers of said religion

I don't know what you are referring to as the "basic" tenets of a religion. The majority of muslim men in western societies drink alcohol even though it is strictly forbidden in the Quran, and yet those men are considered to be "muslim" regardless.

You can find various infractions for any follower of any religion and then subsequently argue that this person isn't following the "basic tenets" of that religion and therefore is not a member of that group. That's the "no true scottsman" argument that you can make to rhetorically "remove" "undesirable" members from the group and thus make the group look better. It has nothing to do with reality.

Televangelists are very obviously, very clearly, Christian. They don't follow all of the teachings of the Bible, just like no other Christian follows all of the teachings of the Bible. Not sure who gave you the authority to dictate what their religious identity is.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#158

Post by Aerbil313 »

toyg wrote: post #156
Aerbil313 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But our prophet Muhammad pbuh doesn’t make money. There is no tax or obligatory donation in an Islamic state. Every wealthy Muslim is required to find a poor person and give 1/40 of their wealth to them every year, and we do this ourselves where I am. No authority is involved.

Despite not really wanting to go into a historic or theological debate, I can't help but notice that the guy went on to be an actual king of sorts - so there definitely was something in it for him, at the time. I do agree that, overall, the formal structure of Islamic clerical organisations looks somewhat more horizontal (look ma, no pope!), and precepts towards charity look more stringent than the average "try to be…

No one denies our prophet pbuh was the ruler of the Islamic state. As are the caliphates after him. It’s Christianity which has no doctrine regarding governance of people, or modern Christians who have weird ideas like religion should not be involved in governance. Someone needs to rule and spread the religion through territorial expansion, as it is the only way people can be saved. Say what you like, but it’s coherent.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#160

Post by Ographer »

rblatz wrote: post #106
ionwake wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is incorrect, linking to a study discussing the benefits of circumcision implies bias. If you had linked to both a positive and negative article, such as one regarding how it permanently destroys male sensitive at the head of penis both producing discomfort for female partners during initial penetration, aswell as permanent trauma in child in other studies, then you would have not made a biased statement wit…

You are obviously passionate about other people’s genitalia, but putting words in his mouth and accusing him of bias when it’s clear from context what he meant is a bad look.

The article did not present the criticisms enough. It's mostly about bodily autonomy.

Imagine if 1/3 of the world gave their babies botex or other face modifications after birth because they thought their babies looked ugly and I was on here defending the baby's rights to not be unnecessarily modified without their consent.

Then you come on here and joke about how passionate I must be about other people's faces. It's not about the faces or genitalia, it's about one's right to bodily autonomy.

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