Live data from Hacker News

Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

nationalgeographic.com

121–130 of 154 posts

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#121
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Altered Carbon brought up the most chilling view of a world without death. In that exploration only the rich are immortal, because the poor can’t afford immortality. Someone being rich for hundreds of years will only cement their their power, position, and their perspective. How do we feel if Rockefeller were still alive and powerful? What if our old kings never died? If any of them had a sexual perversion, w…

This is dependent on a world where immortality is expensive because it's difficult to actually make someone immortal rather than because it's difficult to figure out how to make someone immortal. For all we know, immortality is as simple as a one-time injection into an egg cell, and the challenge is almost entirely in figuring out what to inject. Also, how much is the death of bad individuals actually contributing to…

In these cases the bulk of such institutions is a bureaucratic apparatus, which serves as a tool. You cannot judge a tool for being used for evil purposes, and in the charge of those with different intentions, it may be used for better purposes in the future.

In the more general case (i.e. communities rather than kingdoms or corporations), judgment can perhaps be passed on the principles or aesthetics that keep it together. However changing it would probably require a change in its environment that rendered such principles or aesthetics obsolete. This is a much more difficult task that can require legislation or sociological advancement or something of that sort.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#122
post #61
post #26

> Buffalofish can go decades between successful reproductions because they require very specific environmental conditions—most of which are still unknown—to procreate. That’s why the fish evolved to live so long: It’s an evolutionary adaptation to account for long periods without breeding, according to Lackmann. This reminds me of "The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant" by Nick Bostrom [1]. Senescence is engraved in our bra…

I think Altered Carbon brought up the most chilling view of a world without death. In that exploration only the rich are immortal, because the poor can’t afford immortality. Someone being rich for hundreds of years will only cement their their power, position, and their perspective. How do we feel if Rockefeller were still alive and powerful? What if our old kings never died? If any of them had a sexual perversion, w…

Every technology we know of started off as the exclusive purview of the rich and then saw progressive decreases in price as a result of providers fighting for market share by innovating on and scaling up production.

As for immortal tyrants, we already have immortal institutions that are functionally the same. And the activists, dissidents and opposition leaders who challenge their power will be almost certain to gain from immortality just as much as the heads of dominant political parties.

In a rapidly changing world, immortal tyrants will not necessarily have an advantage in keeping a grip on power. Insofar as they stick to their old ways, the nations they lead will stagnate and become more susceptible to foreign influence. And if they are open to change, they may be open to abandoning their repressive ways.

Opposing technologies that can save us from death due to hypothetical fears about the rich seems like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Aging has a 100% probability of killing you if this technology doesn't emerge within your lifetime. It is strictly a greater threat than a speculated immortal tyrant. And if you think we are so abhorrent that we deserve a measly 80 years before we succumb to aging, then it doesn't follow that you would be so aghast at the idea of those same unworthy beings living longer under repression.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#123
post #56
post #26

> Buffalofish can go decades between successful reproductions because they require very specific environmental conditions—most of which are still unknown—to procreate. That’s why the fish evolved to live so long: It’s an evolutionary adaptation to account for long periods without breeding, according to Lackmann. This reminds me of "The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant" by Nick Bostrom [1]. Senescence is engraved in our bra…

Unfortunately he doesn't address overpopulation. Admittedly, birth rates are declining rapidly.

There's no real overpopulation; there's only misuse of resources. There's too many people driving in big SUVs and living in McMansions and using too much fossil fuel energy.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#124
post #50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the "rising tide" takes longer to reach some than others. I hope for a more equitable, fairer future, but it's likely my outlook is somewhat jaded.

Honestly I also get your take. I think it will depend on the "thing" that will enable us to live longer and healthier. If it is something very expensive and an overnight discovery, then it is likely that a dystopian era will occur... Just imagine some kind of tyrant (as a reference to the fable!) reigning over a country for 100+ years. But it could also be somewhat like what happened with medicine: the sum of smaller…

If a tyrant reigns over a country for centuries, it's because the people there want him in power.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#125
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Altered Carbon brought up the most chilling view of a world without death. In that exploration only the rich are immortal, because the poor can’t afford immortality. Someone being rich for hundreds of years will only cement their their power, position, and their perspective. How do we feel if Rockefeller were still alive and powerful? What if our old kings never died? If any of them had a sexual perversion, w…

Become enough of a tyrant and you may not live to see old age -- Hitler and Stalin didn't. As for tyrants who do grow old -- is an effectively immortal tyrant that much worse than a tyrant who dies but consolidates power within his family to create a centuries-long dynasty? Also, once the technology of immortality becomes well-characterized, the cost to replicate the procedures will go down barring price-fixing collu…

Right. The argument is especially silly for anti-aging treatments because the consequences of aging are horrifically expensive: look at the Medicare and Social Security budgets for starters. Governments and insurance companies would have every incentive to make them as widely available as possible.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#126
post #83
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an entire universe to fill, overpopulation is just as worthy of worrying about as is running out of numbers.

Currently there is only Earth to fill.

Imagine we saw the mother of all asteroids incoming. It was large enough that it would almost certainly extinguish all life on Earth, and even throwing every nuke we had at it would barely scratch it. Yet we also saw this from relatively far away - let's say about 10 years. It seems exceptionally probable that by the time it got here we'd have established colonies on both the Moon and Mars.

The main issues are not technological in nature anymore - but economic. We put a man on the Moon more than half a century ago. The fundamental requirements to convert a short-term stay to a perpetual one are really not that great: food, home, maintenance. Water, which both the Moon and Mars have - in abundance, can be used to generate oxygen and fuel - taking care of near to all essentials. So what you really need is the infrastructure - housing, agriculture/ranching, industry, and recreation.

And that's all entirely viable, but has a very high price tag. SpaceX is trying to tackle this problem by bringing the price of space launches as close to $0 as possible, but even once that is achieved - the actual materials necessary to achieve this, even at cost, will be very substantial. And without some imminent danger, there will be people claiming that we shouldn't colonize another planet because everything here isn't perfect, which it never will be.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why specifically point out a sexual perversion. It seems like the least of the bad things an authority figure like a king could do.

Epstein.

Epstein's crimes were heinous, but if someone were to make a reasonable attempt to rank the villains of the past century by harm caused I think he'd be pretty far down the list. He's also a poor example in the context of this discussion because he did not die of anything related to old age.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why specifically point out a sexual perversion. It seems like the least of the bad things an authority figure like a king could do.

Epstein.

Epstein is a saint compared to a truly evil person. What did he even do? Him and his buddies slept with some 16 year olds from what I know. That’s not even a crime in most countries.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#129
post #7

> In one study, bigmouth buffalo had stronger immune systems than younger fish. Or maybe only fishes with a stronger immune system get older ?

Do you really think the researchers aren't aware of survivorship bias?

[dead]

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why specifically point out a sexual perversion. It seems like the least of the bad things an authority figure like a king could do.

Have you considered living under the iron rule of deathless overlords who, by the way, are also furries? Imagine a magenta, glitter-covered pony hoof stamping on a human face, forever.

Have you seen the people under the fur suits? Someone is power would have no use for reality escapism because their reality is amazing. But hey, there always that really small chance I guess.
Post reply on HN