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Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

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Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#51

Post by Gigachad »

_xnmw wrote: post #50

Reminded me of something I have been thinking about lately: a centralization-cost curve. The engineering problems that go into building things of a certain scale eventually become more expensive than simply breaking up the problem into smaller pieces. It may be much easier and cheaper to build 2 buildings 59 floors high compared to one 118-floor building, but not cheaper or easier compared to 118 one-floor buildings.…

I think this is generally agreed on. Most super tall buildings are heavily state funded and used more of a show piece demonstrating the prosperity and ability of the city. Commercially they just aren’t reasonable.

China for example has stopped building these super tall sky scrapers because it’s far more economical to build lots of 40 level buildings than a few 100+ level ones.

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#53

Post by _xnmw »

Gigachad wrote: post #51
_xnmw wrote: post #50

Reminded me of something I have been thinking about lately: a centralization-cost curve. The engineering problems that go into building things of a certain scale eventually become more expensive than simply breaking up the problem into smaller pieces. It may be much easier and cheaper to build 2 buildings 59 floors high compared to one 118-floor building, but not cheaper or easier compared to 118 one-floor buildings.…

I think this is generally agreed on. Most super tall buildings are heavily state funded and used more of a show piece demonstrating the prosperity and ability of the city. Commercially they just aren’t reasonable. China for example has stopped building these super tall sky scrapers because it’s far more economical to build lots of 40 level buildings than a few 100+ level ones.

Interesting how these generally accepted principles among “real” engineers are still poorly understood by software engineers. I always knew something like Heroku could never work reliably at a certain scale. The limits and tradeoffs of building something like an S3 are rarely even discussed.

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#54

Post by Gigachad »

eastbound wrote: post #21

“When we build a skyscraper like this, it lasts essentially forever” What is the lifetime of a skyscraper? There will be a moment when we’ve lost the engineering calculations and procedures, right? It’s not like an airplane where a D-check means you defurbish and refurbish to control the sanity; and concrete has a limited duration. With so many skyscrapers built in the recent years, will we see some topple and jolt u…

The lifespan is kind of a complex issue. I think generally they can last for a very long time if maintained. But that often the maintenance costs can exceed the point that it’s worth doing.

Australia has a situation where a lot of public housing buildings are 60+ years old and while still structurally sound, they require refurbishment to keep running well. But the problem is living and buildings standards have progressed so much since construction that even if they were restored to like new conditions, they would still be sub standard.

So it makes more sense to demolish and rebuild.

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#55

Post by Gigachad »

_xnmw wrote: post #53
Gigachad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is generally agreed on. Most super tall buildings are heavily state funded and used more of a show piece demonstrating the prosperity and ability of the city. Commercially they just aren’t reasonable. China for example has stopped building these super tall sky scrapers because it’s far more economical to build lots of 40 level buildings than a few 100+ level ones.

Interesting how these generally accepted principles among “real” engineers are still poorly understood by software engineers. I always knew something like Heroku could never work reliably at a certain scale. The limits and tradeoffs of building something like an S3 are rarely even discussed.

This doesn’t really seem to translate across at all. Widely in software it seems it really is easier and more cost efficient to have a few super platforms than thousands of small ones.

Like Facebook, Reddit, and Discord were able to absorb the hundreds of thousands of old school forums. And they still run faster and cheaper than the sum of all those individual run sites.

For buildings it’s tricky because the additional height and weight create lots of new problems.

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#56

Post by acover »

jvanderbot wrote: post #22

So, somewhat related. Is there a way to play Sim Tower nowadays? I regret that I never got that last star, and think about it once or twice a year.

https://playclassic.games/games/simulation-dos-games-online/...

First result on google, a dos simulator.

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#57

Post by Beijinger »

mmoskal wrote: post #41
Beijinger wrote: post #4

Easiest and fastest solution: Pater Noster lift.

Hmm... about 15 seconds per floor (judging from Wikipedia video), times 118 floors = half hour to get to the top! I guess still faster than taking the stairs...

You can run it easily 10 times the speed :-)

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#58

Post by BoiledCabbage »

_xnmw wrote: post #53
Gigachad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is generally agreed on. Most super tall buildings are heavily state funded and used more of a show piece demonstrating the prosperity and ability of the city. Commercially they just aren’t reasonable. China for example has stopped building these super tall sky scrapers because it’s far more economical to build lots of 40 level buildings than a few 100+ level ones.

Interesting how these generally accepted principles among “real” engineers are still poorly understood by software engineers. I always knew something like Heroku could never work reliably at a certain scale. The limits and tradeoffs of building something like an S3 are rarely even discussed.

Can you elaborate on Heroku and S3?

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#59

Post by bombcar »

juggertao wrote: post #47
myself248 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble is that the call button doesn't indicate how many people want to go in a given direction, just that there's more than zero with such a desire. If you could get people to input perfect information about where they wanted to go (ideally on the way to the elevator lobby, before having arrived there), much greater optimization would be possible.

Most modern buildings (2008+) don't have up/down buttons anymore, instead they require each person to input the exact floor they want to go to on a keypad. It's called "destination dispatch".

This is true on the main landing, but often all the floors above just have simple up/down buttons and you select a floor once inside.

Re: Elevator Expert on How to Move 10k People Up a 118-Floor Skyscraper [video]

#60

Post by russellbeattie »

I wonder how long the carbon fiber cable lasts? We've got 100+ years of experience with steel cabling, I wonder how carbon fiber compares. When it fails, it'll probably be by snapping. I hope there's lots of redundancy in place!
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