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Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#111

Post by [deleted] »

rtourn wrote: post #61
sirobg wrote: post #26

> Buffalofish can go decades between successful reproductions because they require very specific environmental conditions—most of which are still unknown—to procreate. That’s why the fish evolved to live so long: It’s an evolutionary adaptation to account for long periods without breeding, according to Lackmann. This reminds me of "The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant" by Nick Bostrom [1]. Senescence is engraved in our bra…

I think Altered Carbon brought up the most chilling view of a world without death. In that exploration only the rich are immortal, because the poor can’t afford immortality. Someone being rich for hundreds of years will only cement their their power, position, and their perspective. How do we feel if Rockefeller were still alive and powerful? What if our old kings never died? If any of them had a sexual perversion, w…

[deleted]

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#112

Post by fb03 »

MostlyStable wrote: post #29
fb03 wrote: post #9

That is beyond amazing to me. As a layperson in biology related stuff, I'd like to ask: How do scientists estimate the age of non-human animals?

Otoliths are calcium carbonate structures that form in the heads of fishes that help with balance and orientation. Humans actually have similar things in their ear canals, they just don't aggregate and it's more like sand. These structured grow with the fish and seasonal changes in growth rate cause lighter and darker alternating bands, similar to tree rings. When prepared correctly, these bands can be viewed and cou…

Thank you for the info, I will research more about this.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#113

Post by fb03 »

momento wrote: post #23
fb03 wrote: post #9

That is beyond amazing to me. As a layperson in biology related stuff, I'd like to ask: How do scientists estimate the age of non-human animals?

Look up Otoliths. It’s a bone in the ear of fish that is commonly used for aging.

Thank you for the info and the appropriate term. I will research more about this!

Time for some wikipedia deep dives!

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#114

Post by jacquesm »

rtourn wrote: post #61
sirobg wrote: post #26

> Buffalofish can go decades between successful reproductions because they require very specific environmental conditions—most of which are still unknown—to procreate. That’s why the fish evolved to live so long: It’s an evolutionary adaptation to account for long periods without breeding, according to Lackmann. This reminds me of "The Fable of the Dragon-Tyrant" by Nick Bostrom [1]. Senescence is engraved in our bra…

I think Altered Carbon brought up the most chilling view of a world without death. In that exploration only the rich are immortal, because the poor can’t afford immortality. Someone being rich for hundreds of years will only cement their their power, position, and their perspective. How do we feel if Rockefeller were still alive and powerful? What if our old kings never died? If any of them had a sexual perversion, w…

There's a reason it is mostly the affluent that seek life extension, it's the one thing they can't buy just yet. And if and when they can I'm sure they will hope for it to be extremely expensive.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#115

Post by fb03 »

rpmisms wrote: post #11
fb03 wrote: post #9

That is beyond amazing to me. As a layperson in biology related stuff, I'd like to ask: How do scientists estimate the age of non-human animals?

For some fish, you can count the rings on their scales like a tree.

Thank you for the reply! Other repliers answered that I should look up "Otoliths", which is the bony structure in the ear canal of some fish that can be used to count these rings.

Awesome info, everyone

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#116

Post by jacquesm »

nradov wrote: post #73
7thaccount wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a wonderful fable. I enjoyed reading it and wish there was more research occuring in this field. Still, I'm impressed from what I hear in the news from time to time.

There is an enormous amount of money being spent on research to figure out how to prevent people from dying. You're welcome to donate your own money to the many non-profit foundations issuing research grants in that field.

Ladders... those will be the endgame boss.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#117

Post by d_tr »

jacquesm wrote: post #114
rtourn wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Altered Carbon brought up the most chilling view of a world without death. In that exploration only the rich are immortal, because the poor can’t afford immortality. Someone being rich for hundreds of years will only cement their their power, position, and their perspective. How do we feel if Rockefeller were still alive and powerful? What if our old kings never died? If any of them had a sexual perversion, w…

There's a reason it is mostly the affluent that seek life extension, it's the one thing they can't buy just yet. And if and when they can I'm sure they will hope for it to be extremely expensive.

Life extension is just too big of a deal, and when people revolt it can get really messy. The "rich and powerful" are fully aware of this reality.

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#118

Post by a_bonobo »

agumonkey wrote: post #82
jb1991 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No; elephants are a good example of animals with relatively low cancer rates.

so it's a matter of density (which is probably what grandparent was hinting at)

It might be a matter of cell count still, elephants have many extra copies of p53, one of the main cancer-suppressant genes. We have one copy, elephants have 20. So the linear correlation may still be there if you'd remove those extra copies.

https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/12/can-elephants-g....

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#119

Post by a_bonobo »

MostlyStable wrote: post #29
fb03 wrote: post #9

That is beyond amazing to me. As a layperson in biology related stuff, I'd like to ask: How do scientists estimate the age of non-human animals?

Otoliths are calcium carbonate structures that form in the heads of fishes that help with balance and orientation. Humans actually have similar things in their ear canals, they just don't aggregate and it's more like sand. These structured grow with the fish and seasonal changes in growth rate cause lighter and darker alternating bands, similar to tree rings. When prepared correctly, these bands can be viewed and cou…

Along with that, the more expensive method that scales a bit easier is DNA methylation: most vertebrates, including fish, have a strong correlation between the percentage of their genomes that has been methylated and the age. It's like r=0.99, the older, the more methylated. (however, artificially de-methylating doesn't make you younger)

So you can sequence these genomes and count. Definitely more expensive than digging out a tiny bone, but you can sequence a few hundred or thousand genomes at once.

Random example paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-36773-2

Re: Some fish live beyond 100 and get healthier as they age

#120

Post by hnu234 »

stevebmark wrote: post #68

If you're curious to learn more, look into cold blooded vs warm blooded animals and longevity. Cold blooded animals might give us hints to slow aging in humans. Energy expenditure might be related to longevity. Eating more and exercising more (and the energy required to keep your core temperature up) might kill you faster, maybe through free radical production from metabolism.

> Eating more and exercising more (and the energy required to keep your core temperature up) might kill you faster, maybe through free radical production from metabolism.

There's a theory that it's actually heartbeats. Most animals have about 1.5 billion heartbeats.

"The reason an elephant lives longer than a shrew is not because its heart beats longer. It's because its heart beats slower. So it takes a few more years for the elephant to complete his or her up to one and a half billion beats."

https://www.npr.org/2007/08/18/12877984/size-matters-the-hid...

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