Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

web3isgoinggreat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 166 posts

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#121

Post by chrismorgan »

bloomingeek wrote: post #116
kevingadd wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern american evangelical christianity suffers from a particular moral rot that isn't unique to it but is also not common to other branches of the faith. Specifically, there's a firm conviction that once you're saved you remain saved, and you can find lots of people who behave as if as a result, nothing they do really matters. They can be selfish, they can be rude, they can be cruel, they can be unfaithful, and it'…

Sadly, I agree. The "always saved" and "faith without fear" motto's give most the idea that humility doesn't matter anymore. Pastor's fill them up with their being special and elect, which is in the heavenly realm, not here on earth. The concept of servant-believers, for most, isn't even on their radar. 2015 was a sort of tipping point, IMO, that has caused a sort of paradigm shift in Christianity. (sorry, a little v…

> biblically taught

And there’s the key. If only people would read the Bible. If they would read even just Philippians 3:12 or Hebrews 10:26 or any of a number of other passages, they would see at once what heresy “once saved, always saved” is.

But no, Christianity is too often just a club. Most people have no actual interest in the Bible. God has ever worked with minorities and remnants. Christianity strongly Bible-based will always be small by comparison.

I rather like the way Dickens framed it in A Christmas Carol:

> “There are some upon this earth of yours,” returned the Spirit, “who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us, and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us.”

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#122

Post by bloomingeek »

foofie wrote: post #56
zaphar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under christian theology the devil made me do it isn't an excuse it's a condemnation. The blame still lies entirely with you. That is in fact the whole point.

That's a good observation, but the part where this breaks down is that these evangelists are clearly not Cristian.

Yes! But when will the church have the courage to point this out? Fact based judgement is righteous.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#123

Post by tourmalinetaco »

kevingadd wrote: post #97
batch12 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christianity isn't the only religion abused by flawed people to do bad things. Its more of a reflection of the people involved and not the religion. It's sad.

Modern american evangelical christianity suffers from a particular moral rot that isn't unique to it but is also not common to other branches of the faith. Specifically, there's a firm conviction that once you're saved you remain saved, and you can find lots of people who behave as if as a result, nothing they do really matters. They can be selfish, they can be rude, they can be cruel, they can be unfaithful, and it'…

Given my experiences with Catholics, I have a hard time believing it isn’t just as common across Christianity as a whole, at least in the US. And in that sense I would sooner say it is a failing of teaching and faith in The Lord, that atheist (and thus hedonistic) thoughts are more pervasive and people believe they can “trick the system” in the future.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#124

Post by 15457345234 »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #102

Affinity fraud is one of the most successful kinds of scams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_fraud This one seems to be two in-groups at once. Believers in cryptocurrency and believers in a particular type of Christian god.

To a certain extent participation in organised religion is an indicator of the propensity of the subject to be manipulated.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#125

Post by AlchemistCamp »

ionwake wrote: post #31
cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve genuinely gotta ask: is not having heard of this an age thing, or a location thing?

Location. Like male circumcision it simply doesnt exist outside of the USA, unless you count random african countries like Ghana. No idea why, if anyone wants to enlighten me let me know.

It’s very common in South Korea as well as in Jewish and Muslim populations globally.

Your comment reflects a very Europe-centric view of the world.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#126

Post by fellowniusmonk »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #101
HarryHirsch wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, Marian apparitions are a thing, but the Virgin isn't going to tell anyone to go out and buy a Porsche.

The way this understanding is generally formulated is that "public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle", but I have not actually encountered this as a formally defined teaching or doctrine.

Cessationism.

It's been a big part of the modernistic bent of the dominant Calvinistic protestant denominations. It was also drove the focus on literacy and certainly influenced the trend towards academic and textual rigor.

Widely abandoned in the U.S. only quite recently by low and high protestant calvanistic conservative groups alike.

Pentecostal and charismatic groups have been around obviously but weren't taken too seriously and were even warned against by dominant evangelicalism, but that has relatively recently changed in conservative Presbyterian circles and influential groups in baptist circles like Sovereign Grace Churches (though they aren't baptist, they've become heavily culturally entwined via southern seminary and other places).

This has basically reintroduced miracles and promoted an embrace of magical thinking in laity's daily life that was long absent from those bookish, stuffy, severe, and practical protestants.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#127

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #126
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way this understanding is generally formulated is that "public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle", but I have not actually encountered this as a formally defined teaching or doctrine.

Cessationism. It's been a big part of the modernistic bent of the dominant Calvinistic protestant denominations. It was also drove the focus on literacy and certainly influenced the trend towards academic and textual rigor. Widely abandoned in the U.S. only quite recently by low and high protestant calvanistic conservative groups alike. Pentecostal and charismatic groups have been around obviously but weren't taken t…

No, cessationism is about charismatic gifts, but the GP mentioned "prophecy" and I'm referring to "public revelation" so now we've got a thread with three different concepts being bandied about and debated as if they're central to a single controversy.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#128

Post by Aerbil313 »

toyg wrote: post #28
Aerbil313 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bruh. It’s 2024. Can we stop assuming only religion on the face of earth is Christianity?

Muhammad and Siddharta are dead too.

But our prophet Muhammad pbuh doesn’t make money. There is no tax or obligatory donation in an Islamic state. Every wealthy Muslim is required to find a poor person and give 1/40 of their wealth to them every year, and we do this ourselves where I am. No authority is involved.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#129

Post by Duanemclemore »

jjulius wrote: post #85
spamizbad wrote: post #54

Lots of people mocking the “God commanded me to do X” but if you’re familiar with evangelical Christian culture, this line gets used to justify all sorts of behavior and life decisions that might go against what one would traditionally expect a devout Christian to avoid. Obviously fraud and financial crimes are an extreme version of this, but it’s a line I’ve heard to justify all sorts of legal albeit self-destructiv…

>... but if you're familiar with evangelical Christian culture, this line gets used to justify all sorts of behavior and life decisions that might go against what one would traditionally expect a devour Christian to avoid. Religion being used that way isn't limited to evangelicals nor Christianity. In fact, it's basically the reason people are mocking the phrase.

You're right. I grew up in an independent evangelical church so I've been attuned to all this since I got out in my teens. To emphasize - American Evangelical Christianity is especially insidious about this on multiple levels. In contrast to Mainline Protestantism, the entire movement is based on two particularly pernicious things that map to cultlike methods.

They are taught to blindly follow and never question authority. The pastor is the "shepherd" of the "flock" and they openly talk about it in terms echoing the way that the Disciples followed Jesus. And there's a reason you hear about what seem to be so many nasty stories of evangelical religious leaders abusing their power than mainline ones. And there's a reason authoritarian politics are so closely identifiable with evangelism in America.

Second, they work HARD TO create an in-group and out-group. There are the "saved" and everyone else. If you're "unsaved" and attend the church, the pressure is INTENSE to commit. RELENTLESS. And once you're in, you're on the inside of an "us against the world" mentality. I'll give an example. You know the current "War On Christmas?" People walking around like NPC's saying "I don't care, I'm going to say Merry Christmas - since when did that become a crime, none of this 'Happy Holidays' stuff!"

I remember being inside the movement in the eighties, and the thing they were completely up in arms about then was that businesses were co-opting Jesus's name by using "Christmas" to sell stuff. So the move to "Happy Holidays" by corporate America wasn't just an inclusive, religiously-neutral way to put it. I distinctly remember listening to christian radio at the time and the conversation being about pressure campaigns to get "Merry Christmas" out of businesses. I'm sure businesses were happy to oblige to stop the PR onslaught. It was the "War on Christmas" of its day. And twenty years later when it fits their agenda to creating division between believers and non-believers? The entire thing reversed directions.

Re: Colorado pastor charged for cryptocurrency scam he perpetrated at God's command

#130

Post by fellowniusmonk »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #127
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cessationism. It's been a big part of the modernistic bent of the dominant Calvinistic protestant denominations. It was also drove the focus on literacy and certainly influenced the trend towards academic and textual rigor. Widely abandoned in the U.S. only quite recently by low and high protestant calvanistic conservative groups alike. Pentecostal and charismatic groups have been around obviously but weren't taken t…

No, cessationism is about charismatic gifts, but the GP mentioned "prophecy" and I'm referring to "public revelation" so now we've got a thread with three different concepts being bandied about and debated as if they're central to a single controversy.

Prophecy is explicitly one of the charismatic gifts.
Post reply on HN