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'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

shunyaekam.com

11–20 of 38 posts

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#11
Given a big enough n every tribe member will be a dissident. Mathematically it can be shown that as n grows the distance between the average vector and any other vector grows, ie: in the limit everyone is a dissident. Therefore I don't think this notion of God makes any sense.

I recommend you this notebook for an in depth analysis of the phenomenon https://allendowney.github.io/ProbablyOverthinkingIt/gaussia...

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#12
Seems like a good segue into how 21st century big tech algorithms should work.

It's not about what big tech thinks, but an individual looking for information who may perhaps be influenced by cohorts. And maybe an algo could accommodate these intricate relationships.

There's no single general algo that should work for all of us, nor a big tech platform that is able to understand us without our explicit choices.

As an agnostic, I can say I'll not understand theists preserving part of their brain for what God would think. But I would subscribe to people and groups when I back their modus operandi.

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#13
This seems to be based on the assumption of the existence of a "tribe" you're supposed to belong to... what if:

    - there is no such thing

    - you made it your life goal to belong to no such thing in the first place

    - you belong to many of those "tribes" in parallel
Where does that leave the whole argument?

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#14
post #5

I am a Catholic Christian and a moral objectivist, so my thoughts are, of course, colored by my own religious and philosophic views. With that disclaimer out of the way ... I don't think this rings true. It suggests that the morality espoused by a particular religion basically just boils down to public opinion. But there are a multitude of cases from my own and other religions where the message put forth by the relig…

It may not be a primary goal, but it is a necessary feature for a religion to spread.

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#15
post #5

I am a Catholic Christian and a moral objectivist, so my thoughts are, of course, colored by my own religious and philosophic views. With that disclaimer out of the way ... I don't think this rings true. It suggests that the morality espoused by a particular religion basically just boils down to public opinion. But there are a multitude of cases from my own and other religions where the message put forth by the relig…

Exactly. A huge component of Christianity is separation from the world and standing out against a crowd. There is certainly a popular folk religion, but this is not the essence of religion.

That’s what they claim, but it is not true in the slightest.

Christians generally maintain a persecution complex even when they are holding tremendous power over others in their society, and this goes back centuries. It is extremely common for Christians to talk about slight curtailment of their ability to oppress others as persecution.

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#16
post #5

I am a Catholic Christian and a moral objectivist, so my thoughts are, of course, colored by my own religious and philosophic views. With that disclaimer out of the way ... I don't think this rings true. It suggests that the morality espoused by a particular religion basically just boils down to public opinion. But there are a multitude of cases from my own and other religions where the message put forth by the relig…

I think there are different ways to interpret what a popular opinion is. For instance, there is doing thing X, wanting to do thing X, and wanting to want to do thing X. So even if a religious concept appears unpopular, it’s possible that believers of a religion want to express that concept, or even want to want to express that concept, even if they don’t directly express that concept in their everyday lives.

I think abortion is a good example of this. Plenty of people who oppose abortions have had abortions themselves.

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. A huge component of Christianity is separation from the world and standing out against a crowd. There is certainly a popular folk religion, but this is not the essence of religion.

That’s what they claim, but it is not true in the slightest. Christians generally maintain a persecution complex even when they are holding tremendous power over others in their society, and this goes back centuries. It is extremely common for Christians to talk about slight curtailment of their ability to oppress others as persecution.

So where does this enormous power exist in the US? What powerful institutions or media influence do they control?

How would Catholicism represent the mean of public opinion?

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#18
I think average is the wrong approach. Chatgpt is pretty much an average: if you ask it about a 50/50 topic it will avoid giving you a straight answer and will split its answer down the middle with the pros and cons of each side. I've played with chatgpt a lot and it has never given anything like a feeling of omnipotence or omniscience - quite often the average opinion is wrong or at least misleading for my specific situation.

My personal conception of God is based on something more like quantum immortality - not only are you immortal because there are infinite copies of you and at least one of the copies must survive to observe the universe, but there is some sort of party at the end of time where all your selves can get together and figure out which copy had the best life. And then these selves collectively are God and they (re)created the universe so you could have the most satisfaction. But you yourself are just a copy so you'd better look up those answers with chatgpt so that you don't end up being one of the copies with a sad story to tell.

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#19

This seems to be based on the assumption of the existence of a "tribe" you're supposed to belong to... what if: - there is no such thing - you made it your life goal to belong to no such thing in the first place - you belong to many of those "tribes" in parallel Where does that leave the whole argument?

Respectfully, it sounds like a young person's ideals where they have the idea no one ever thought about their ideas before. Or alternatively, just someone who has very little inclination to be involved in society. Or further, someone that never cared about anyone elses opinions. Valid stance I guess, for certain scenarios.

Re: 'God' is the average opinion of your tribe

#20

The title explains literally the whole concept: Representing the "opinions" (or more appropriately dispositions ) of each person as a vector, the belief system of a "tribe" (connected set of individuals) is probably the mean of these vectors. And relgions seek to optimize the "morality" they preach (vector they propose as "god") to maximize membership / agreement / centralness of their god. Which of course (author do…

Dot-product morality, perhaps?

https://kitsunesoftware.wordpress.com/2019/05/25/dot-product...

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