so is gamedev
so is gastro
so is public services
so is almost anything that isnt some high-level IT stuff, breaking news
Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
301–310 of 365 posts
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two of those three are over 30 years old and the other is a movie with a $90M budget. I was talking about TV shows. Though I've heard things like Castlevania are good, haven't seen it though.
We are not living in 2028. Only one is "over 30 years old".
Dang I did the math in my head wrong.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
no, I just think that minimum wage is the worst possible way to address the issue, from an economic perspective. It would be far better to pay people what their work is actually worth, and then give them charity through the government, supported by taxes, if need be. Same goes for healthcare, which should absolutely not be a mandated part of employment. Pay people what they are worth, and let them buy healthcare. If…
Why should the taxpayer foot the bill for a business unable to pay their employees a living wage.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As for animators having to find new work... good? Isn’t this a paternalistic point of view? Why do you know better than the animators who are accepting these jobs? Who are you to tell them that their career choice is wrong?
The animators themselves are saying they hate their working conditions and their dream job has become a nightmare.
Why don't they quit?
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Employees also do not have a right to any particular career. That's nice that people have a dream to make anime for a living. I hope they get to realize it. But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want. If you can't make enough money doing a certain job, maybe go get a different job then.
There is no job that is ok to pay nothing or as good as nothing. It doesn't matter what "career". If a job needs doing by a human at all, then that human does indeed deserve a reasonable baseline which allows them to exist and even do so with reasonable dignity. As time goes on and jobs are done by machines, and there are fewer and fewer jobs that require a human, then the output and ownership of those machines simpl…
These are not slaves. They are free to leave. Nobody is forcing them to work at this job for so little pay. There are plenty of other jobs that pay better. They should go get one of those if they want more money. If enough of them did, the supply of animators would fall and pay would increase.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. A similar argument was used in favor of perpetuating slavery prior to the civil war. > People just have to accept that means the industry will shrink dramatically. So many things will just never get made. I've accepted that. Now let's pay people fairly for their time and skill. > That also means far fewer people will get to become animators. They’ll h…
Slavery ended as industrialized agriculture was taking off. While farmers are paid better now, there are a lot fewer of them. Perhaps we will see the same with animation; there will be a few well-paid and highly-skilled artists that are automating with a bunch of AI. I doubt that will be the solution to equality though.
It does not seem outside the bounds of reason that all the ‘in-between’ stuff gets done with AI. At that point you only still need your keyframes.
Doesn’t really make things much cheaper because the people drawing those in-between frames are already paid peanuts :/
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
No no and no. Companies will find a way to make things work even if labour costs more. Every company and neo liberal says that same thing about regulation, employee wages, tax increases .... Funnily enough when those same regulations/wage increases/taxes come in they do not leave the market ... Strange. Edit: clarity Companies can and will adapt.
> Companies will find a way to make things work even if labour costs more. The way is to move / outsource to where it costs less. There is a reason that iPhones are mostly made in China.
> There is a reason that iPhones are mostly made in China.
If they were made in the US and cost $2000 instead of $1000 people would still buy them.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, there is no such thing as a "fair pay". All of it is driven by demand and supply, always, except when regulations or external factors somehow break things. Second, of course increased costs of production lead to consequences for end users or people who buy the content. We see that all of the time in every industry.
> All of it is driven by demand and supply, always, except when regulations or external factors somehow break things. This is very much not true for worker salaries. For one thing, workers can not easily hop from area of expertise to area of expertise like capital can — and workers oftentimes lack the ability to take the high risk that might comes with quitting a job in search of another or attempting to switch caree…
> For one thing, workers can not easily hop from area of expertise to area of expertise like capital can
Uh, last I checked, capital is not capable of hopping from area of expertise to area of expertise. A GPU cannot decide to become a burger flipping robot (much to the dismay of some crypto investors).
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
You skipped over the first clause of the sentence: "If you can't pay a living wage"
japanese animators are not living in the streets, homeless and starving so I am not sure what this "if" is about
I bet they aren't living great either, when compared with western consumers with bookshelfs full of anime.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Employees also do not have a right to any particular career. That's nice that people have a dream to make anime for a living. I hope they get to realize it. But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want. If you can't make enough money doing a certain job, maybe go get a different job then.
I'm not convinced that workers shouldn't have any rights or protections. That sounds like a pretty extreme viewpoint. Or just one coming from an employer's perspective where I can see why you might desire no limits on treatments of workers.
It is quite common in highly capitalist societies, workers should be thankful they get a couple of pennies if at all.
They should learn to be hard workers, saving all the penies they can, never be sick, and some day if they don't die before it, living the dream of being their own boss.