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Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

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271–280 of 365 posts

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be fixed. People need to learn some basic finance if they want to influence how creator economy businesses run. If you can't do that make friends with business experience who you can trust and rely on. If you can't do either, don't get into a creative field. Most of the time creatives just hand over all financial decisions completely to some one else. And then guess what, the financial engineers gain much more…

> You will not find a single sucess story certainly depends on the definition of success..

Disney is doing well in the finance department but its appeal is falling hard.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#272

Then who’s making money?

The anime committee. Someone linked an excellent video about how the committee is formed and how they collude to cap anime budgets. As a result they also get most of the revenue. Which is according to plan; if your biggest "stakeholder" is a merchandising outlet the quality of the anime quality only matters as much as needed to hype merch sales

As a western metaphor, think of anime studios similar to the VFX industry where many bid based on some anime the committee wants to make. Sometimes studios pitch their own anime, but most can't afford to put down their own money for that arrangement.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#273
post #50

It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix.

> It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix. s/worse/better Soon the creators and artists will be able to make full films without studio capital in the mix. This should start happening by the end of the year. The studio system exists because film and motion media is hard to make. It requires a lot of people, a lot of logistics, and a lot of capital. That's not going to be true for much longer. Soon the webc…

Gamedev is close to this. I can assure you that indies will not get the better end of the deal here. Companies with money will out-advertise you, will out-produce you, and still hold onto valuable copyright despite the narrative here about signaling the end of copyright.

And that's all before discussing how this will affect monetization. Indies already feel soft capped at $20/work and almost hard capped at $30. Will the same consumers pay those prices for what they feel is "lesser art" now? Indie gamedev can barely break even on $10-20 as is.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#274

I don’t understand why this author completely writes off the possibility of not releasing weekly. Honestly in the era of streaming, who cares about releasing every week? Often I wait until a season is wrapped before watching any of it. As a fan I can’t imagine getting upset at a longer cadence, and at the most slightly annoyed.

It doesn't really matter that much in terms of logistics. Animators will usually be working on episode 8-9 of an anime by the time episode 1 airs. If not outright done with the 12 episode cour.

Weekly schedule is usually done for the sake of broadcast channels, which is still a bit more relevant in Japan than over in rhe West.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#275

I bet a lot of people are thinking "Why don't they do their own animes" but this neglects the reality that all distribution pipelines for any kind of media have been totally monopolized. The anime creator has zero bargaining power over the media monopolist.

There's the internet.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#276
All hit-driven industries, TV, movies, toys, games, anime, etc... need to be forced to pay the people who make them royalties. Money is always tight most of the time, but when someone makes a hit they need legal protection to a fair share of the huge profits.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#277
post #34
post #9

While the industry as a whole makes a lot, the majority of individual anime and manga make next to nothing. It’s a few very popular properties that make all the dough. If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many. But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble. As an anime and manga fan, I actually…

The "if we paid people fairly things would be prohibitively expensive" argument is a terrible one, just to note. First, it rarely seems to actually be the case since the requirement that employees be paid fairly mostly just drives away low-value efforts. It's also an attitude that, if taken to its logical extreme, demands society have an underpaid underclass that suffers so the rest of us can have nice things.

No, if anything, the above comment is saying the opposite by advocating the bitter but moral vision of a smaller economy with fewer seats, and in this case less anime. We can say that the anime might be better, and that maybe the anime which dies is shitty anyway so good riddance, but we can also say that we're envisioning a smaller economy with fewer artists and less art.

Similarly, maybe we should have fewer musicians and less music, but at least we have an absence of the slave economy you mention. Maybe the medical profession is doing something right by limiting the flow of the pipeline.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#278

Then by definition, that’s what their time is worth. It should alarm animators that they’re paid so little. It alarmed me as a gamedev when I saw how much webdevs earned in comparison. It’s partly why I left, and I was much happier for it. No amount of legislation or shame articles will change the reality that market forces have profound effects, and these effects are difficult to break. Unions try. To my knowledge,…

This is like a collective action problem. Any industry with enthusiasts or which is itself a hobby is subject to this behavior. People need to stop being so naive as to accept poorly paid jobs because they think the subject matter is 'funner'. Game Devs are the first example I thought of here. If you love games, that's great.. but why not go work in literally any other software dev work for maybe 2x the pay and/or 1/…

>If you love games, that's great.. but why not go work in literally any other software dev work for maybe 2x the pay and/or 1/2 the hours.

1. Work is still half your waking life for decades. Why not attempt to make it quality work instead of a slog if you can help it?

2. Less money =/= barely afford rent. I was still making $160k at my last role with 7YOE, so we're not talking "can barely pay rent". I'm a single 20's male with no car or school payments to make, and pretty low maintenance hobbies (hiking, games, art). Even in a high CoL area, doubling my salary won't necessarily double my QoL.

3. Gamedev is still a craft, so the more time you spend honing it the better a dev you become (generally). Even if I chose to leave gamedev as hobby work on the side, it reduces my ability to progress.

4. Gamedev works on similar "it's who you know" logic. And the best way to connect with fellow devs in a meaningful matter is to be in the industry. If you have aspirations to open your own studio one day these connections and portfolio is priceless for selling yourself to others.

5. Playing a game is very different from making one. Just because you like playing games doesn't mean you will enjoying making one yourself. The opposite can be true as well. Gamedev digs into domains like graphics, physics, UI/UX, and even psychology in applied ways that challenge engineers, even ones who rarely play games. A graphics programmer is a wizard who will be snatched by many industries if they open up, but if you wanna home your craft, you don't have too many other places for such specific work. Games, 3d animation, GPUs, and a few research labs (often looking for PhDs though).

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian welfare states are weaker than you think. The main solution if you can't afford much food is to move back in with your parents. (Also very high rates of young women reporting doing sex work, though I don't know if that's because of poverty.)

> Asian welfare states are weaker than you think I think I am fairly aware (see profile) and yet most people dont live paycheck to paycheck. the idea that most working class people are just one step away from being thrown in the streets is just a crazy delusion.

Sure, but I assumed we were talking about entry-level anime inbetweeners here, which presumably are young people with the least savings.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western animators aren't paid that terribly, just anime animators, and only some of them. But part of the compromise that Western animation does to be more productive is that it all looks bad. There's a fake-anime style Superman cartoon on I saw that has the artistic quality of maybe a Japanese elementary schooler. And then Netflix makes animated sex comedies that look like old Flash cartoons.

From a quick search, that's probably "My Adventures with Superman", which is animated in South Korea: > My Adventures with Superman is an American animated superhero television series based on the DC Comics character Superman. The series is developed by Jake Wyatt, produced by Warner Bros. Animation and animated by Studio Mir in South Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Adventures_with_Superman

It is, but the style and production methods are controlled by Americans, unless they have direction and storyboarding being done in Korea as well.

I'm not sure how payscales work for Korean outsourcing vs Western animation, though I guess I'd like to know.

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