Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

Post by chasing » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 3:20 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #47

chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have free will, but large groups of people are at an extreme negotiating disadvantage versus individuals or small groups that can more easily plan and coordinate -- and who happen to control the resources. This is why we need things like unions and government regulations: Not to unbalance things in favor of workers but to help achieve some amount of balance between owners and employees.

Agree that these animators should work to unionize if they want to improve their situation. But I think for professions like these, the "they have free will" argument is pretty compelling. If they were being exploited in a low-skill, low-status job, where there are few to no alternatives, sure, definitely an industry that needs worker protections. But no one needs to be an animator at a big anime studio to survive. T…

Post by ekianjo » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 3:22 AM UTC

astrange wrote: post #147

ekianjo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not free will in philosophical terms as we are all programmed in some way or another by our parents, our education, our environment, etc... but we certainly have enough amount of Free Will to change jobs...

Economics doesn't use "free well" to model labor markets, but it does have search costs and monopsonies. You can't wait for the ideal job to appear because you might starve first.

Post by chii » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 3:23 AM UTC

chocolatkey wrote: post #109

Before making conclusions about animator wages being due to lack of this or that, please watch this informative video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iExwO1v_V-s It covers a point that I am not seeing the discussion here, about the role that anime production committees play in the wages of animators and gatekeeping in the industry in general. This channel has other informative videos on the subject as…

Post by ekianjo » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 3:26 AM UTC

Goronmon wrote: post #148

imgabe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees also do not have a right to any particular career. That's nice that people have a dream to make anime for a living. I hope they get to realize it. But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want. If you can't make enough money doing a certain job, maybe go get a different job then.

I'm not convinced that workers shouldn't have any rights or protections. That sounds like a pretty extreme viewpoint. Or just one coming from an employer's perspective where I can see why you might desire no limits on treatments of workers.

Post by jstarks » Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 3:29 AM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #135

cmdli wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your argument, it's not as simple as "letting the low value efforts die". If most anime were to stop being produced, most of the animators would also be fired and be unable to continue what is (I assume) their passion and career. The simple fact is that there isn't enough money going into the industry to pay all the animators a fair wage, so either animators get paid less or there are fewer animato…

Vocational awe is a curse. If you have an endless supply of people willing to work pennies then the industry will build itself around paying them pennies. This does not mean that this is the only way you can build an animation industry - just that this is the path Toei and Sunrise took. The amount of money that goes into the industry is not static. The original linked article specifically cites cases in which members…