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Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

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Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#71

Post by livueta »

echelon wrote: post #50
huytersd wrote: post #29

It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix.

> It’s only going to get worse with AI now in the mix. s/worse/better Soon the creators and artists will be able to make full films without studio capital in the mix. This should start happening by the end of the year. The studio system exists because film and motion media is hard to make. It requires a lot of people, a lot of logistics, and a lot of capital. That's not going to be true for much longer. Soon the webc…

Agree. There's an example in democratization of music production tech: the market has become broader and deeper in direct proportion to the declining relevance of expensive hardware. In the context of Japanese culture, consider how many production/songwriting/instrumentalist/vocalist careers were launched by Vocaloid. The way it panned out has been the complete opposite of the death of the "real" vocalist industry; just look at Reol's career arc as one example of this dynamic.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#72

Post by Osmose »

Apreche wrote: post #9

While the industry as a whole makes a lot, the majority of individual anime and manga make next to nothing. It’s a few very popular properties that make all the dough. If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many. But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble. As an anime and manga fan, I actually…

They would be untenable at current profit margins. Significant profits could still be made while also paying a living wage if current profit margin expectations were reduced and viewed across a property as a whole (i.e. merch sales, ongoing streaming rights, etc.), but production committees are in a position of power and choose not to.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#73

Post by [deleted] »

Apreche wrote: post #9

While the industry as a whole makes a lot, the majority of individual anime and manga make next to nothing. It’s a few very popular properties that make all the dough. If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many. But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble. As an anime and manga fan, I actually…

[deleted]

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#74

Post by jazzyjackson »

swells34 wrote: post #54
Ecstatify wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let’s get rid of minimum wage while we’re at it.

I'd much rather implement a maximum wage, would do a huge amount of good for our society. Let's say a cap on any more than $10M a year for total wealth gain for any individual. Everything else is taxed at 100%. Suddenly, we could all have healthcare, kids would get the supplies they need for school, a UBI scheme would be doable. Basically, we could finally stop acting like a poor third world country.

This is literally how the freemasons started as a secret society btw. After the black plague there were salary caps on skilled labor but the masons decided to hell with that and colluded to demand higher wages under the table

if you wanted a cathedral or a city hall built they held all the leverage

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#75

Post by sergiotapia »

Just like videogames and movies/tv. There's an infinite, ever refreshing revolving door of fresh meat for the grinder. And people want to be part of it regardless.

With such conditions there will never be an increase to pay. It's just the way things will be in these segments - forever!

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#76

Post by silisili »

kelnos wrote: post #33
DANmode wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be missing some context due to your curt response. Are you implying that mines were once considered a high-class "cool" job to have, like working at Google, Uber, SpaceX, or Twitter was a decade+ ago (and still is today for many?)? What is the connection here, exactly?

It was sarcasm. The poster was referring to child-labor laws, that prohibit children from working in many conditions. Many of these laws are rooted in times when children would work in factories, mines, etc. in order to help their families make enough to survive, but, being children, were of course exploited. "The children yearn for the mines!" is a hyperbolic response that a caricature of a human might give if they…

Important missing context here: the original saying was regarding Minecraft being among the most the popular games for children.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#77

Post by j7ake »

swells34 wrote: post #54
Ecstatify wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let’s get rid of minimum wage while we’re at it.

I'd much rather implement a maximum wage, would do a huge amount of good for our society. Let's say a cap on any more than $10M a year for total wealth gain for any individual. Everything else is taxed at 100%. Suddenly, we could all have healthcare, kids would get the supplies they need for school, a UBI scheme would be doable. Basically, we could finally stop acting like a poor third world country.

Please explain why taxing people beyond $10M at 100% will result in better social programs?

Your theory can also be countered with another theory: people making a certain amount of money will simply leave the country, leaving you with less tax revenue than the current system.

Also, how does one tax unrealized stock market gains (which is what most wealthy people's wealth are)? I have not seen that policy anywhere and I imagine it would be very difficult to implement.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#79

Post by pcwalton »

The comments here are talking about how that's the entertainment industry for you, and that's true, but it's also Japan, where salaries are much lower in general than in the US or Europe. Per a quick Google search, at current exchange rates, it's not uncommon to see programmers with 2-3 years of experience earning $30K/year USD there, sometimes lower than that. Japan's economy has been stagnating for decades and that's reflected across the board, not just in entertainment.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#80

Post by Aeolun »

kelnos wrote: post #27
oatmeal1 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the alternative is starving, they do. The problem isn't children being allowed to work in mines. The problem is the lack of superior alternatives available to them.

Right, and in this case, the superior alternative should be an animator who makes a decent living. Sometimes, unfortunately, we have to legislate the superior alternative into existence. I'm not certain that's a good or necessary move in this particular case (I doubt there are many if any animators where their choice is to be an animator for low wages, or starve and live on the streets), but it's an option. I always…

> I always thought it weird that we have minimum wage levels for hourly workers, but once you're salaried, you work however many hours your employer wants, or you get marginalized or fired.

This isn’t actually true in Japan though, and why so many people actually favor all the overwork. If you are salaried, and not on a specific kind of contract (my contract includes up to 45 hours of overwork), all your overwork is paid by the hour, with higher multipliers for late night work. Which is how people effectively double their salary.

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