Earlier quoted context omitted.
I generally agree, that said we had a number of our animators move into gamedev from traditional VFX roles and from they way they told it gamedev was significantly better, uf da.
What's "uf da?"
Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
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Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#62When I read things like this, I think back on my experience in games and entertainment. I believe that the more generally prestigious the industry is, the more likely it is to see worker exploitation. Part of your pay is wrapped up in getting to brag that you work in industry X on product Y. Almost by definition, that means young, passionate labor. Industry leaders quickly learn how to exploit the young and passionat…
I don’t think it’s about prestigious as much as it is about passion. People in these industry join and often work there out of genuine passion, which makes them do sacrifices that take years to regret.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#63Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#64[dead]
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#65Then who’s making money?
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#66Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
If unionization were endemic to the global economy, that might work. Lacking that, power dynamics are such that workers need protections enshrined in legislation. If salaries are a race-to-the-bottom, nobody benefits except the ones doing the hiring. You may have a "job," but the market salary average would be depressed while the companies enjoy a large talent pool of replaceable workers. If I didn't know history too…
Unions were on my mind when I read this. However, for some reason unions don't tend to take over in creative fields or fields of passion. SAG-AFTRA is the only exception to this that I can think of. This is why I think it's become common practice for tech companies to profit share. We take it for granted now, but it's not common...especially for artists.
"Creative" unionization (for lack of a better term) doesn't pop up often in the news but it's absolutely out there and growing. Keep an eye on the gaming and VFX industries over the next few years.
https://www.theverge.com/23789935/sega-union-cwa-unionizatio...
https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-activision-bl...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/13/marvel-vfx-artists-unanimous...
https://iatse.net/avatar-vfx-artists-file-for-union-election...
It also must be said that during the Hollywood strikes last year, it was the Writer's Guild that drove the talks and were the ones to get the studios to capitulate. And I find writing to be the building block of creativity and passion for a lot of industries. Every story starts somewhere, these days usually on a writer's PC.
That the WGA is demonstrably one of the strongest unions in America makes me very happy, but a little forelorn other unions aren't nearly as strong. IATSE isn't regarded nearly as respectfully in Hollywood, for instance.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#68When I read things like this, I think back on my experience in games and entertainment. I believe that the more generally prestigious the industry is, the more likely it is to see worker exploitation. Part of your pay is wrapped up in getting to brag that you work in industry X on product Y. Almost by definition, that means young, passionate labor. Industry leaders quickly learn how to exploit the young and passionat…
I totally agree with your diagnosis, but I don’t see why it’s considered to be a problem. Why shouldn’t people be free to trade off salary against other desirable traits in a job? Even at the extremes?
The problem is it becomes collectively forced and the value of their labor is devalued.
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#69[dead]
Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies
#70While the industry as a whole makes a lot, the majority of individual anime and manga make next to nothing. It’s a few very popular properties that make all the dough. If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many. But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble. As an anime and manga fan, I actually…
The "if we paid people fairly things would be prohibitively expensive" argument is a terrible one, just to note. First, it rarely seems to actually be the case since the requirement that employees be paid fairly mostly just drives away low-value efforts. It's also an attitude that, if taken to its logical extreme, demands society have an underpaid underclass that suffers so the rest of us can have nice things.
> It's also an attitude that, if taken to its logical extreme, demands society have an underpaid underclass that suffers so the rest of us can have nice things.
That is how (modern) society works already on a global scale. I am not saying it's good, but it's the way things are.