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Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

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Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#181

Post by xboxnolifes »

dan-robertson wrote: post #96
growingkittens wrote: post #87

The long-term impact is much more ambiguous to measure. I paid particular attention in school when a teacher would explain why they were trying to teach us something. I noticed the same patterns of teaching among different teachers in the same school system, and how it all worked together to reinforce the skills we needed. (Note: many of my peers experienced the "extra" work as pointless, because they didn't understa…

What’s a concrete example of one of the explanations for a reason you were given for your being taught something?

Not who you replied to, but the bad one I always got was "You'll need to know it for college".

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#182

Post by reducesuffering »

paulcole wrote: post #175
reducesuffering wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be average if you actually thought this site doesn't have a selection bias out of the world population. If you think HN averages out to a middle of the pack student, people who spend their free time reading text, you have quite the social bubble around you. There's also like 25 $1b+ founder/ceo's out of 50k.

Believe it or not the world has a lot of people who are above average whose lives don’t revolve around computers. There’s just as many losers here as anywhere.

First part, of course, but since HN is only like 50k that doesn’t say much about HN.

Second part, there can forsure be many “losers” here but it’s quite ignorant to think there’s the same percentage struggling in math classes as the general population. Think about it. If you took 100 HN’ers where do you think they skew on succeeding on math tests or even taking classes like Calculus compared to gen pop? The average person even in the US doesn’t have a Bachelors degree. Do you think that applies to HN? Or that it’s not correlative with educational success?

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#183

Post by Wowfunhappy »

SyrupThinker wrote: post #164
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state. Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but…

Seems about right for "Science and Technology", a variant of this question also shows up in German IHK (chamber of commerce) exams for software developer certifications, with a similar expected answer. Although you do sometimes get weights… the important part is explaining that you evaluate some weighted sum and take the best result. How much impact would this question have on the final result for the licensure exam?…

> How much impact would this question have on the final result for the licensure exam?

Fun fact: I have no idea!

Basically all I know is that (1) tests are scored on a scale from 400 – 600, (2) the minimum passing score is 520, and (3) the test is not graded on a curve. But I don't know why they even bother sharing these numbers, because they don't divulge any information on how they're calculated.

https://www.nystce.nesinc.com/content/docs/NYSTCE_ISR_Back_M...

> Although you do sometimes get weights… the important part is explaining that you evaluate some weighted sum and take the best result.

To be clear, this is a multiple choice question. You need to select (A) Company 1, (B) Company 2, (C) Company 3, or (D) Company 4.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#184

Post by [deleted] »

ang_cire wrote: post #141
s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think standard usually means codified. It is also frequently used to mean typical, or within expectation. It this example, outside law or regulation on standard creativity and utility seem pretty unlikely. There is also a pretty big difference between standard (singular) and standards (plural), where the latter is more likely to imply a set of minimum requirements.

The very first line item (Scale number 1) uses "standards" plural: "Far below standards"

[deleted]

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#185

Post by paulcole »

reducesuffering wrote: post #182
paulcole wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not the world has a lot of people who are above average whose lives don’t revolve around computers. There’s just as many losers here as anywhere.

First part, of course, but since HN is only like 50k that doesn’t say much about HN. Second part, there can forsure be many “losers” here but it’s quite ignorant to think there’s the same percentage struggling in math classes as the general population. Think about it. If you took 100 HN’ers where do you think they skew on succeeding on math tests or even taking classes like Calculus compared to gen pop? The average p…

I never said anything about calculus or math.

I said that HN is mostly average students and I haven’t heard anything that changes my mind, regardless of whether you think a lot of people here are good at calculus. How do you think HN readers fared in art/literature/English classes?

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#186

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128
dilippkumar wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely meme worthy material. Would you mind sharing the source?

The source is copyrighted / costs money. Also, I did purposefully choose the worst question as an example. Practice tests can be purchased from this site https://www.nystce.nesinc.com but I can't find the page for this specific test (and don't really want to spend time looking). You're looking for the practice test for CST 245. This is the Arts & Sciences section of the Multi-Subject test for Teachers of Childhood, G…

Self-replying to add on, if you just want to see the original table (as opposed to as my ASCII version), here are screenshots of the question. I just can't share the full test since it's paid material. (Sharing one question for the purpose of commentary and criticism is obviously fair use.)

Question: https://i.postimg.cc/wvn7tRf8/Screen-Shot-2024-01-20-at-7-00...

Answer Key: https://i.postimg.cc/90TzyXK4/Screen-Shot-2024-01-20-at-7-02...

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#187

Post by nunez »

scruple wrote: post #63
jackfoxy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not make any significant change in the numbers applying for k-12 positions, but do people really need to go through the torture, indoctrination, and expense of graduate school to teach k-12? Won't a handful of undergrad courses, seminars, and internships suffice in addition to whatever other degree is pursued? As it is now wannabe teachers already have too much time, the most precious of all commodities, inves…

Teachers need graduate degrees to teach K-12?

depends on the state, but in most of them, you earn more by having a graduate degree.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#188

Post by reducesuffering »

paulcole wrote: post #185
reducesuffering wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First part, of course, but since HN is only like 50k that doesn’t say much about HN. Second part, there can forsure be many “losers” here but it’s quite ignorant to think there’s the same percentage struggling in math classes as the general population. Think about it. If you took 100 HN’ers where do you think they skew on succeeding on math tests or even taking classes like Calculus compared to gen pop? The average p…

I never said anything about calculus or math. I said that HN is mostly average students and I haven’t heard anything that changes my mind, regardless of whether you think a lot of people here are good at calculus. How do you think HN readers fared in art/literature/English classes?

Pretty fucking good, actually. That's why we're here writing copious amounts of text, more Bachelor's (a big general education) than average, reading articles, and upvoting ACX posts, someone who was top of the top in English class writing competency.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#189

Post by eszed »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #131
graemep wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a home educating parent. There is no way I could teach a classroom without learning how. Teaching one to one, encouraging and mentoring does not need as much skill. Most of us do it somewhere (e.g. at work). On the other hand I am sure the skill can be learned on the job, but teaching a classroom is still definitely difficult. I also did not spend much time teaching as such: when they were young, lots of learnin…

It may depend. I was mainly educated in the UK. I went to council schools in poor areas, and to an expensive public school, and the difference between pupil behaviour was enormous. In the former they were hard to control (I even remember a kid angrily telling a teacher to fuck off) but in the former when the teacher started speaking everybody piped down and started listening immediately. I remember being so struck by…

Yeah, classroom behavior sets the floor (and often the ceiling) for what can be accomplished. It's a hell of a lot easier when students are already aligned towards decorum and achievement. However, teachers and schools can create classroom culture.

One of my mentors told me about his first year of teaching in a rough area where, as he put it, "I knew what I was in for when the principal was more interested by my law-enforcement background than anything I might know about math". He spent the first two months gaining compliance with one rule: come to class with two pencils and your notebook, and nothing else. Literally nothing else was accomplished. Once he got them there, however, he had a chance to teach, and his classes ended with some of the best scores in the district (admittedly not a high bar).

When I worked as a supply / substitute teacher in primary and secondary schools my theatre training was infinitely more valuable than any education class I ever took.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#190

Post by corny »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state. Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but…

Company 4 is a reasonable answer. What's the point in having a scoring system if you're going to use personal judgement to determine the winner? Of course company 4 would be a bad fit. But the problem is the method that was originally chosen to evaluate the companies. The key is "according to the evaluation detailed in the chart". In reality, the company should look at these results and realize that they need a new evaluation method.
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