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Apple Ramps Up R&D Intensity to Pre-iPhone Levels

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Re: Apple Ramps Up R&D Intensity to Pre-iPhone Levels

#101
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moore's law has been dead for a while now and nobody really knows how much more we can get in terms of performance per watt. But even if it continues to improve, you're implying that what they've got right now is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable Or maybe worse than that, because the trade off never really goes away. Desktops and servers are still faster than laptops, but portability is a huge advan…

That's why I said Moore's law limping along.. it has slowed significantly, and the original transistor doubling every 18~24 months is definitely dead, but transistor processes are still improving, slowly. The trade off is always there, but more people are using their phones over their desktop computer these days. That said, I do have serious concerns the greater impact to society in general when transistor technology…

> That's why I said Moore's law limping along.. it has slowed significantly, and the original transistor doubling every 18~24 months is definitely dead, but transistor processes are still improving, slowly.

What they're really doing is getting more power efficient. The "feature size" (number of nm) is fiction at this point. And the tricks they're using to eek out improvements at this point are, uh, interesting. Like they can't make it better without causing errors to occur so they just do that anyway and cover it up by using more error correction. It's really not obvious how much more of this there is to be found.

> The trade off is always there, but more people are using their phones over their desktop computer these days.

That isn't exactly true. The growth in the number of people with a desktop computer has leveled off, but it hasn't really gone down, and the things people use them for are still the same things. If you're going to write a long document, you're going to want a full-sized keyboard. The GPU needed for modern AAA games isn't going to fit in a phone. Professional activity that requires a lot of computation, like compiling code or editing video (or, going forward, a lot of this AI stuff), is a lot faster on a high-power device with more CPU or GPU cores.

What actually happened is that at least the same number of people still use a desktop computer, but now everybody has a phone, including the people who traditionally had a desktop (and still do). So more people have a phone than have a desktop, but not because fewer people have a desktop.

And it would be hard for some new technology to do the same thing to phones because nearly everybody has a phone. A new device can't have 20% more users than phones do when 97% of people have a phone.

Re: Apple Ramps Up R&D Intensity to Pre-iPhone Levels

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you really contending that this is a difference of the same magnitude as the iPhone? Yes. Convincing a large fraction of the population to not only adopt a novel computing device, but attach it to their person in a publicly-visible way is something that happens a few times a generation at most.

Except that you could say the same thing about the watch. I feel like people are just grasping at straws. The iPhone changed how people communicate, how they buy things, how they access information. AirPods got people to stop complaining that Apple took away the headphone jack. I suspect that might have even been the main reason Apple made them.

> you could say the same thing about the watch

AirPods are far more broadly adopted than the Apple Watch. I’d also argue against the latter having the sense of design finality the AirPods came out of the door with. Similar to the iPhone.

> AirPods got people to stop complaining that Apple took away the headphone jack. I suspect that might have even been the main reason Apple made them

Doubtful given development timeline and sourcing. It’s more that they arise from a shared vision.

Re: Apple Ramps Up R&D Intensity to Pre-iPhone Levels

#103
post #25
post #2

Wonder what they are cooking ? - AR Glasses would be one but they still feel like a decade away - Whatever happened to the Apple Car? - Apple Watch with more sophisticated medical sensors for sure must be in there. Wonder what else?

The Apple Silicon project has to have been fantastically expensive. They now use them in all of the watches, all of the phones, all of the macs, all of the ipads and ipad pros, all of the headphones, and the current and future AR systems (there is also a special Apple Silicon AR coprocessor in the Vision Pro, separate from the Mx CPU/GPU/SoC). They are designing and iterating like 4 or 5 different custom chips, with…

IMO for a place like apple, where they are buying chips in such volumes they define entire production runs anyway and define target design specs for vendors there is probably already a lot of cost they are consuming where adding something like the apple silicon design project is cheaper. The marginal cost of going full apple silicon is lower as a result. Apple has also been very frustrated with their chip vendors, especially intel, in making what they want so I imagine it started as a 'last resort' project after they've exhausted their vendors.

While another smaller place that wanted to do something like apple silicon would have much higher marginal costs because they would need to spend on the things that apple was already spending on implicitly. It became an economy of scale thing.

Re: Apple Ramps Up R&D Intensity to Pre-iPhone Levels

#104

Money likely spent on crap. Apple is now a really bloated company that barely innovates, and now with plenty of governments breathing on its neck. Just look at how many IPhone models exists nowadays, Steve Jobs would be shocked to see Apple in 2024.

You forgot to mention that the only reason people buy Apple products in the first place is because of marketing. If the sheeple ever wake up, Apple is doomed. Or so I've been hearing for, what, the last decade or more?

Even despite how displeased I am with Apple right now, I can still clearly the edge it has in technology, how neatly integrate their software/hardware stack is etc.

Marketing is strong on Apple, but they do have great products. They just failed to do anything meaningful since the IPhone.

Don't come tell me about Airbuds, iPad and iWatch, they are all really obvious and soulless products. This isn't anywhere the kind of product innovation Jobs used to push.

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