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Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

the74million.org

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Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#31
post #5

Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks. In college I interacted with a strange life form called a "homeschooler". Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credi…

You interacted with a homeschooled student who made it to college. Huge difference compared to the average homeschooled student.

Presumably there is a similar difference between the average non-homeschooled student and the population that made it to college.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#32

The UK always had a program that allowed you to become a teacher without a degree. It involves a diploma followed by gaining QTLS (Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills) status I believe. Is this not the case in the USA?

Generally in the US you need a bachelors degree and a teaching certificate.

But requirements are set individually by the states and vary widely.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#33
post #18

I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…

Tech already does this and it doesn’t seem great? The STEM initiative beginning in the 70s is a national program to get lots of qualified workers into STEM jobs. And yet most STEM graduates don’t have STEM careers (51%). One reason is tech companies hire whoever they want based on their own metrics. Your suggestion just gives large industry more power and leaves people without stable careers or not getting jobs they…

Isn’t the stat about STEM grads not working in STEM largely people with degrees in fields like biology (with all of its vocationally limited subfields like evolutionary and population) or chemistry (where you might only be qualified to work as a low paid technician without graduate study)? It seems to me that the difference in employability between a BS in Biology and a BSEE is enormous, both in ease of finding a job as well as career earnings.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#35

As a former high school teacher, I am in favor of reduced requirements to enter the profession; however, I taught in two states that supported these types of on ramps, and they didn’t seem to make a notable impact on applicant numbers (that is, out of the hundreds of educators I worked with over the years, I knew only one who came in via a non-traditional pathway after working in a different field (engineering)). Tha…

Teacher pay is too low for anyone to want to take a teaching job when they have professional qualifications that would allow them to work a much better-paid job. (Especially when getting those skills also involved paying hundreds of thousands in student loans to a university. You need to earn your way out of that hole, and not working the best-paying job you can would be prolonging that debt!)

But I think the article is suggesting something different: that teachers could and should be hired fresh out of high school, when they don’t yet have any of those other professional skills — or the debt involved in acquiring them — and then simply given on-the-job training. Quote:

> Another recent study, out of Oakland, California, backs up this theory. Parents with high school diplomas who were given 10 weeks of training on a structured literacy program helped students produce strong early literacy gains, roughly on par with those made under fully credentialed teachers.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#36
post #5

Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks. In college I interacted with a strange life form called a "homeschooler". Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credi…

You interacted with a homeschooled student who made it to college. Huge difference compared to the average homeschooled student.

I was completely unschooled prior to college and while I did fine in school I was generally very poorly adjusted. I actually don't know a single homeschooled person who came of age nearly as prepared for the world as anyone I know who went to primary school.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#37

I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…

Law? Medicine? Engineering? Would you want the bridges to be designed by anyone with any degree? I realize there's lots of sillyness in degree programs, but certainly the rigor is worth something, right?

This isn’t a realistic worry. Someone about to plunk down hundreds of thousands or millions for a bridge will exercise more due diligence than random selection.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#39
I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state.

Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but useless in a real classroom. Teaching is just one of those things that you largely learn by doing.

Teaching does take a lot of skill and practice—I am surrounded at work by more experienced colleagues, and watching them always leaves me impressed—but I don't think it's something you can learn from a textbook.

Similarly, the licensure exams are just awful, at least in New York. I will leave you with a real practice test question from the official preparation materials. This is for the content knowledge test on "Science and Technology".

----------

A construction company is evaluating proposals for the creation of a new playground. They are using the following scale to assess the relevant criteria:

    +--------------+------------------------+
    | Scale number | Scale score assessment |
    +--------------+------------------------+
    | 1            | Far below standards    |
    | 2            | Below Standard         |
    | 3            | Meeting standard       |
    | 4            | Exceeding standard     |
    +--------------+------------------------+
Use the chart below to answer the question that follows:

    +----------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
    | Criteria       | Company 1 | Company 2 | Company 3 | Company 4 |
    +----------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
    | Safety         | 3         | 4         | 3         | 1         |
    | Quality        | 3         | 2         | 3         | 4         |
    | Creativity     | 4         | 3         | 3         | 4         |
    | Sustainability | 3         | 2         | 2         | 4         |
    | Utility        | 3         | 3         | 4         | 4         |
    +----------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
According to the evaluation detailed in the chart, which company should be awarded the project?

----------

Ready for the answer? Take a moment to think about it before looking...

The answer key says it's company four, because they have "the highest overall score. We are not told any information about categories being weighted and therefore we cannot pay special attention to the low safety score."

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#40
post #5

Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks. In college I interacted with a strange life form called a "homeschooler". Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credi…

You interacted with a homeschooled student who made it to college. Huge difference compared to the average homeschooled student.

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