now control for salaries
Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
21–30 of 209 posts
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#22The UK always had a program that allowed you to become a teacher without a degree. It involves a diploma followed by gaining QTLS (Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills) status I believe. Is this not the case in the USA?
It'll vary by state.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#23As a former high school teacher, I am in favor of reduced requirements to enter the profession; however, I taught in two states that supported these types of on ramps, and they didn’t seem to make a notable impact on applicant numbers (that is, out of the hundreds of educators I worked with over the years, I knew only one who came in via a non-traditional pathway after working in a different field (engineering)). Tha…
I would love to teach high school but there would need to be some major changes to the system before I would be willing to.
What I really want is to be able to teach the kind of CS courses that I took in high school—they were optional classes that kids chose to be in because they were interested, and the teacher had full discretion on what to teach.
Unfortunately, that's not the typical high school class, and most teachers have to teach at least a few mandatory classes with curricula dictated at the state level. Props to the teachers who are willing to deal with reluctant students and enabling parents, but I would go crazy in that environment, and I've had bad experiences trying to teach curricula handed down from on high.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#24I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…
> This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. It shifts the burden on the employer to make an alternative assessment of the applicant. If what they're using now isn't reliable, but convenient, why would any alternative be?
There is often a very technology and IT centric viewpoint on this website.
This is often the case anyway with technology positions, but for other things like accounting, medicine, law, etc formal education is more required.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#25I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…
> This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. It shifts the burden on the employer to make an alternative assessment of the applicant. If what they're using now isn't reliable, but convenient, why would any alternative be?
Because the people best placed to assess a candidate for a role are those who know the duties of that role in detail. Much of what's taught at university has marginal benefits beyond a core, much smaller, cirriculum.
Take something fairly complex like game development, say. Now: do some linear algebra, geometry, programming, etc. assessment in a wholistic way. Maybe a quick quiz for initial filter, then a hackathon with applicants (or w/e).
People filtered by the quiz can be directed to the now many resources for self-study (you can easily do an entire degree via MIT lectures, etc. -- i know i did, i barely attended lectures and just watched stanford/MIT classes; gilbert strang's LA course several times).
If you really want to be a game dev, and can't self-study after a failed attempt and a year or so of reflection then go to university. Now you know it's for you, that it really will help, etc. They're providing a service you actually need.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#26Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks. In college I interacted with a strange life form called a "homeschooler". Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credi…
You interacted with a homeschooled student who made it to college. Huge difference compared to the average homeschooled student.
Do you have any studies or sources to show outcomes of homeschooled children? I've since met many outside of college, they all seem far better off than the average high schooler I knew as a kid.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#27I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…
> it was always as much about 'keeping the rifraff out' as it was in selecting good candidates.
The proposal moves this phase to the university system, like it used to be.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#28With working from home getting popular, even fewer people want to be a teacher. 5 days a week starting at 8am. Not going to happen.
Maybe in the future, to entice people to become public teachers, or at least to stem the bleeding of current teachers, they'll allow teachers to work less.
Instead of one teacher teaching a class/subject (like math) 5 days a week, two teachers will rotate, one teaching math 3 days per week, and the other teaching 2 days per week.
But then, that would require them to double their supply of teachers, which seems unlikely to happen.
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#29I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…
This just sounds like an argument that degrees are not good proof of qualification, but it assumes that a certification would be. Might certifications not fall prey to the same decline in quality as degrees, which used to act as an imprimatur?
Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. It shifts the burden on the employer to make an alternative assessment of the applicant. If what they're using now isn't reliable, but convenient, why would any alternative be?
There is often a very technology and IT centric viewpoint on this website. This is often the case anyway with technology positions, but for other things like accounting, medicine, law, etc formal education is more required.
If you wont pass an accountancy exam without formal education, and i'd say most wouldnt, then they'll get one.
The number of applicants who succeed in such cases, at getting through without formal education, will be very small. And i'd be 90% of those cases, that applicant is way above their peers in performance -- ie., worth having let it