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Using an automated day trader to generate income

fattyfatfat.com

41–50 of 98 posts

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#41
post #34
post #15

I have no idea what that guy is talking about with double moving averages and what not, but I'd bet that a few simple IF/THEN statements could have produced similar results over the same period of time. Say it hand done well, would you go an invest a few thousand dollars using the IF/THEN algorithm? On a similar note, say this guy did lose his $3500. Do you think you'd be reading this post on how to automate day trad…

using past performance to estimate future performance simply does not work This is not always true. I had a theory a few years ago that went like this: The price of a stock is a direct function of the perceived price of the company multiplied by a risk factor: The more risk the less the stock is worth. On the day the yearly report is publicised for a company the risk is big just before the publication because nobody…

The problem is that the market is dynamic and chaotic. Measuring past data doesn't give you much indication of how much your algorithm would have made, even in hindsight, because every buy and sell you would have executed would have changed the market and the future. Even relatively small orders can have big ripple effects, especially if they just happen to trigger standing limit orders.

Genuinely measuring the market (by trading) changes it.

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#42
post #15

I have no idea what that guy is talking about with double moving averages and what not, but I'd bet that a few simple IF/THEN statements could have produced similar results over the same period of time. Say it hand done well, would you go an invest a few thousand dollars using the IF/THEN algorithm? On a similar note, say this guy did lose his $3500. Do you think you'd be reading this post on how to automate day trad…

What is investing if its not a IF/THEN statement? If price goes up then sell, if price goes down then buy. If the company meets these financial criteria then buy, if not then sell. If the price approaches a resistance level then sell. Whether your basing the investment decisions on fundamental or technical analysis, either way its an IF/THEN statement at some level.

>If price goes up then sell, if price goes down then buy

By how much? Within what time period? Are there any other factors that might be pertinent?

The world is not simple.

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#43
boolean TraderAnxiety(boolean mktStatus) {

  if (mktStatus == FALLING) {
    Sell();
    return true;
  }

  if (mktStatus == SURGING) {
    Buy();
    return true;
  }

  if (mktStatus == FEAR) {
    Loathing();
    return true;
  }

  if (mktStatus == OVERMYHEAD) {
    UseProfanity();
    return true;
  }


  return true;

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#44

um well, hello. so thats my website. quite the site here. and quite the surprise to see that i'm getting any attention at all. a lot of very intelligent commentary.

All successful day traders are lucky. People who give day trading advice are frauds.

That's not the most polite thing to say. Some of the people who give day trading advice might even be sincere and not know that they are frauds. But it's the truth.

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#45

If you thought something were profitable in a market, and it was easy enough to implement that any hedge fund could, why would you publish it? They'd just do it too until it was no longer profitable.

its quite true that a lot of people do it. Its not ACTUALLY a profitable venture in the sense that the risk-reward profile from a purely monetary standpoint is probably unjustified. I did it for fun, to learn, to gamble, and hopefully get lucky. God knows I've spent money in worse ways before. Regarding the theory that other players would jump in the market and cause the opportunity to go away: you're right, but they…

I would imagine hedge funds test just about every parametrization you can think of. And since it's a market, wouldn't even similar trading algorithms ruin your chances? Especially considering the tax and fee implications of trading frequently.

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#46

Heh, so this has piqued my interest. I have absolutely no experience in online investing/day trading, although I'm pretty sure a lot of you are veterans. Any books you'd recommend to a programmer with day trading aspirations?

Yeah, don't daytrade. It's a sucker's game. The market is too close to efficient for you to recoup what you lose in brokerage fees and excess taxes.

Fund your IRA to the max, and if you're 20+ years from retirement buy all ETFs with low expense rations. If you're closer to retirement, buy fewer stocks and more t-bills, etc.

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is investing if its not a IF/THEN statement? If price goes up then sell, if price goes down then buy. If the company meets these financial criteria then buy, if not then sell. If the price approaches a resistance level then sell. Whether your basing the investment decisions on fundamental or technical analysis, either way its an IF/THEN statement at some level.

>If price goes up then sell, if price goes down then buy By how much? Within what time period? Are there any other factors that might be pertinent? The world is not simple.

Hence why I said "at some level"

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#48
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

using past performance to estimate future performance simply does not work This is not always true. I had a theory a few years ago that went like this: The price of a stock is a direct function of the perceived price of the company multiplied by a risk factor: The more risk the less the stock is worth. On the day the yearly report is publicised for a company the risk is big just before the publication because nobody…

The problem is that the market is dynamic and chaotic. Measuring past data doesn't give you much indication of how much your algorithm would have made, even in hindsight, because every buy and sell you would have executed would have changed the market and the future. Even relatively small orders can have big ripple effects, especially if they just happen to trigger standing limit orders. Genuinely measuring the marke…

Yes, in that respect it's like physics - by measuring you are altering the experiment.

The volume on the day the reports came out was quite heavy, but if you had bought a substantial amount of stock it would certainly alter the market as you say. The point is that I'm pretty certain there are holes that will allow you to look at historic data and make statistically good buys - but you have to look where noone else is looking. Like the correlation of Nokia stock to the Finnish weather. Some of these will be large enough that you can make money, even though you alter the experiment.

On an unrelated note - I just read through your blog and found it very insightful :-)

Re: Using an automated day trader to generate income

#49
post #9

If you thought something were profitable in a market, and it was easy enough to implement that any hedge fund could, why would you publish it? They'd just do it too until it was no longer profitable.

I don't expect wikipedia to be a reliable source of information on this topic, but there is an entry that claims that hedge funds already do this sort of thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_trading

There are companies that base their whole business on this sort of thing ie: http://www.jumptrading.com/
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