Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#101

Post by flir » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 1:52 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #99

flir wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, I swear! Just a slight toothache and an overactive sense of saracsm here. But I am a bit lost now. I thought we were trying to avoid colour-terms-that-are-also-race-terms in language. Whitewashing ok, whitelist bad?

I understood the point you made, but I think you're maybe being a little deliberately obtuse (due to your tooth ache perhaps). Have a great day. Edit: I explained my reasoning here: > Why would you need to? .. it relates to the act of washing white paint over something. > There's no logical reason for a negative list to be known as a 'blacklist' as far as I can tell?

Look, you're free to believe that. But I promise you I did not expect you to say whitewashing was ok. That came completely out of left field for me.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#102

Post by lacrimacida » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 1:54 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #84

Ma8ee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all the customers. I actively avoid Amazon since quite a few years back. There are literally dozens of us!

I was up early one day getting coffee, and saw that one of the book stores in my neighborhood had a line of about 30 people of all ages outside waiting for it to open. I figured it was an event, and had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too. When the doors opened, they all scattered to different parts of the store. So, no author signing or music release. Just people who like books.

Im glad you had a great experience in the bookstore. Unfortunately many bookstores had to close down because of giants like Amazon. Some will stay open but much fewer than before as it becomes a niche rather than a widespread phenomena. I fondly remember spending lots of time in bookstores in the 2000s, it was my favorite pasttime. The experience of browsing books in a bookstore cannot be and will never be produced by the likes of Amazon.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#103

Post by carlosjobim » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 1:56 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #23

andirk wrote: post #9

I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the end all be all? I do not understand this.

You would have to normalize buying elsewhere for it to make any difference.

When sellers invest time and effort into making it comfortable to buy, there is no problem at all getting customers to pay on your own website, outside of Amazon or other platforms like Booking.com or what have you.

However, most sellers have a hostile attitude towards their own customers, whether the seller is a business or individual. They won't make a decent webpage, they won't make an acceptable and smooth buying experience, and they won't match price or give a better price than the platforms. So, naturally customers will go to who they trust.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#104

Post by vcg3rd » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 1:57 PM UTC

andy99 wrote: post #59

andirk wrote: post #9

I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the end all be all? I do not understand this.

I don't use amazon (although I cheat a bit because my wife sometimes does). But for books we use indigo.ca (in Canada) which has the same selection and is importantly not Amazon. Is there another national US online bookseller? For other stuff, I just go to the hardware store. The only real amazon thing I depend on is a kind of micro-fibre wipes I use for my glasses. It's actually mostly happened organically since ama…

>Is there another national US online bookseller?

Barnes and Noble. Their Nook isn't as good, but it's an alternative. I also will buy books [1] direct from publishers, and there are still more narrowly focused sites like History Book Club and Christian Book Distributers.

[1] I dislike using qualifiers (physical books, postal mail) which turn centuries-old words into phrases. If I mean e, I say/write e, otherwise I mean what the words always meant.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#105

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:04 PM UTC

javawizard wrote: post #50

riedel wrote: post #6

Just checked, interestingly it is still available for on demand order via other channels. Wonder if they still print it and only delist on their own frontend [0]. Maybe it is a bit of compensation if they profit from the Streisand effect. Regarding Amazon I find it funny that they actually engage quite a few people e.g. for tech support of end users. I think they know where to optimize.. [0] https://www.thalia.de/sho…

> interestingly it is still available for on demand order via other channels Where, if you don't mind my asking? This would make an excellent birthday gift for a good friend and I'd prefer to get her the print edition, but a quick search is failing to turn up anywhere that offers an actual hardcopy besides Amazon.

I'm trying to remember what service we considered, when an organization that wrote a book self-published (I was on the committee to write the book).

We ended up actually commissioning normal printing, and selling the book, ourselves (it was quite successful, if I say so, myself. We made our money back in about a month), but we did consider a service that allowed you to sell print-on-demand. They ran the store, and the printer. You could also move eBooks through them.

This was many years ago, and memory fails me.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#106

Post by flir » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #99

flir wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, I swear! Just a slight toothache and an overactive sense of saracsm here. But I am a bit lost now. I thought we were trying to avoid colour-terms-that-are-also-race-terms in language. Whitewashing ok, whitelist bad?

I understood the point you made, but I think you're maybe being a little deliberately obtuse (due to your tooth ache perhaps). Have a great day. Edit: I explained my reasoning here: > Why would you need to? .. it relates to the act of washing white paint over something. > There's no logical reason for a negative list to be known as a 'blacklist' as far as I can tell?

Um. You corrected the word "whitelist", not "blacklist".

Ok, here's where I think we are. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"whitewashing" is ok, because its etymology has nothing to do with race. It's just about painting something over with whitewash. Just an analogy.

"whitelist" is bad because... its etymology has nothing to do with race? wait, what?

You can see how I'm thinking "this dude's ideas aren't totally fleshed out"? Honestly seems to me that "whitewash" is in the same etymological bucket as "whitelist", and it would be consistent to move away from both of them.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#107

Post by B1FF_PSUVM » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

sva_ wrote: post #92

reaperducer wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was up early one day getting coffee, and saw that one of the book stores in my neighborhood had a line of about 30 people of all ages outside waiting for it to open. I figured it was an event, and had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too. When the doors opened, they all scattered to different parts of the store. So, no author signing or music release. Just people who like books.

> had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too Are you British by any chance?

Well, at least he didn't ask anyone what was the event, which is quite proper since they had not been introduced.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#108

Post by wut42 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

andirk wrote: post #9

I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the end all be all? I do not understand this.

Is there any good alternatives to Amazon print-on-demand ?

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#109

Post by downut » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:19 PM UTC

Kye wrote: post #95

tomrod wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my areas we have puli libraries with interlinear loan. Being able to read for pleasure is a wonderful luxury!

I think I would miss PINES if I ever left Georgia. The nearest library is tiny, but I can have any of 10 million books delivered to it. And if the system doesn't have it, they appreciate and respond to requests.

We moved from AZ to suburban Atlanta last year, and were familiar with interlibrary loan for rural libraries in AZ. But wow! PINES is sensational. We get books and DVDs, even some BluRays from all over GA. Been watching The Wire again, it's great.

And the inventory isn't censored either. I started a reread of Gravity's Rainbow and that came from Carrolton (college town). Certain gory/raunchy murder mystery series come from the oddest places. Series like Game of Thrones. And highbrow academic stuff like Anne Hollander.

Reminds me I got to log on and extend a couple of titles.

But yeah, we still buy dead tree books, occasionally, from Amazon, but only if we want to keep them. It turns out PINES is great for that, too. Just put it on hold, review it in person, and if it's actually good, buy it.

Re: Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook

#110

Post by zillanovikov » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:20 PM UTC

Zilla here (one of the Sad Bastard Cookbook authors). Thanks so much for your support ... I'm lowkey dropping "front page of Hacker News" when I talk to Amazon Service reps now, in the vague hope they have any power to actually help me. I think I've reached at least one real person, but in the days of AI voice chat, who can tell?

Many of you asked why we use Amazon as the exclusive printer/distributor of the print edition. Variations of this happened to basically every self-pub author I've met, so why didn't I use another platform?

1) Reach. As Ma8ee pointed out, there's literally dozens of people buying books online but not on Amazon. If I want readers to find it, I need to be on Amazon. Bonus, one of the most important controlling factors in new people finding your book is whether the Amazon promo algorithim suggests the book to them, so any sale off Amazon doesn't contribute to building an avalanche. The game's rigged, but it's the only game in town.

2) Money/quality. Last time I checked (few years back, things might have changed), Draft2Digital print books were bad quality. Ingram print books are decent quality but their calculation for printing fees and royalties means they usually don't pay out at nearly the same rate. I've not compared directly for the Cookbook, but for Instant Classic, it's the difference between making a couple dollars or a couple cents. We did it for Instant Classic as a service for people who despise Amazon, but the royalties from the Cookbook are a substantial factor in "eating" and "making rent" for one of the Cookbook team, so there's a limit to how much I want to give away the print edition of the Cookbook. Especially if "giving it away" involves the reader paying Ingram, just not us. If anyone knows a print-on-demand distributor who pays out enough in royalties for authors to make money, please respond to this.

3) Distribution. We're small fry self-pub, without a big publishing house behind us. I've looked around for places which will take us on self-pub books and distribute them, and the options are pretty limited. I'm convinced we'd sell in brick-and-mortar stores, but that's typically not an option for self-pub unless you approach the owner of an independent bookshop on an individual basis. (We approached a couple proper distributors who accept query letters from non-traditionally published books, but they focused on specific genres and we weren't the right fit.) Basically, if you're not traditionally published, you're looking at Amazon, Ingram, or Draft2Digital to print and distribute your books. If anyone knows of other printer/distributors which take self-pub books, PLEASE tell me.

ETA: people are informing me that Ingram can make money, and that Lulu exists. I am investigating.