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Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

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Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#151

Post by seanmcdirmid »

kstrauser wrote: post #95

Scratches Haier off list of household vendors. I use HomeKit so this probably doesn’t directly affect me at all. But if I stop using HomeKit, I can and will do as I see fit to make the gear I already own work with whatever I’ve switched to. If adversarial companies want to stop people from doing that, then I’ll help them in that mission by not bringing their stuff into my house in the first place.

> Scratches Haier off list of household vendors.

A Chinese appliance maker with a German sounding name already sounds a bit dodgy in my books. But...I don't think most of us are the target, they go purely at the value buyer market.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#152

Post by asylteltine »

supergeek133 wrote: post #129
asylteltine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? If you don’t want people using your APIs there are ways to block them. If it’s public, don’t complain.

That's exactly what Haier is doing, just via legal means than technical ones. We actually have a public self-serve API. In some cases, if I've tried the diplomatic approach, I've had to actually shut off API access to get someone to even respond to me. In this case, it appears they've taken the same access/creds as the mobile app maybe? Another one of our platforms we cert-pinned the API to prevent this as well. Yes…

Haier is abusing the threat of legal action that’s not the same thing

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#153

Post by jmholla »

devwastaken wrote: post #110

If you are going to break DRM know that the DMCA makes it copyright infringement regardless of how easy it is. If you create software that does this do not use your real identity and ensure any IP used is not your own. Leave them nowhere to send "legal action" to. Only those that play by the rules are affected by those rules.

> If you are going to break DRM know that the DMCA makes it copyright infringement regardless of how easy it is.

There are also carve outs for breaking DRM for compatibility.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#154

Post by mindslight »

r9295 wrote: post #97

How is this different to Google copying Oracle's Java API? Is it because it's hardware?

Oracle vs Google is a fully resolved case that cost those companies millions of dollars to litigate. This is a shakedown letter which uses those kinds of large legal damages as a threat to force a developer to stop doing something that a company does not like.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#155

Post by hedora »

alias_neo wrote: post #96

I'm in the process of reverse engineering an appliance myself to allow it to be integrated with Home Assistant, one which requires an mobile app to operate remotely and is connected to the net all of the time, when it doesn't need to be. I was gifted this particular appliance, but the solution is really to just not give companies like this your money. Unfortunately it's easier said than done, but looking for things w…

On a related note, we bought an LG wall oven, and, after the cabinets to fit it were built, inside the oven door, we found a “by using this oven you agree to binding arbitration and worse” sticker. Of course, it was too late to switch out the model, and the distributor wouldn’t have accepted the return if we’d tried.

At what point will the courts decide that post purchase contracts are unenforceable?

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#156

Post by r9295 »

mindslight wrote: post #154
r9295 wrote: post #97

How is this different to Google copying Oracle's Java API? Is it because it's hardware?

Oracle vs Google is a fully resolved case that cost those companies millions of dollars to litigate. This is a shakedown letter which uses those kinds of large legal damages as a threat to force a developer to stop doing something that a company does not like.

I was wondering if the precedent set by the Oracle vs Google case applied here as the user is re-implementing an API, but considering the fact that the user still has to go talk to Haeir servers, it's a different story.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#157

Post by yencabulator »

hedora wrote: post #155
alias_neo wrote: post #96

I'm in the process of reverse engineering an appliance myself to allow it to be integrated with Home Assistant, one which requires an mobile app to operate remotely and is connected to the net all of the time, when it doesn't need to be. I was gifted this particular appliance, but the solution is really to just not give companies like this your money. Unfortunately it's easier said than done, but looking for things w…

On a related note, we bought an LG wall oven, and, after the cabinets to fit it were built, inside the oven door, we found a “by using this oven you agree to binding arbitration and worse” sticker. Of course, it was too late to switch out the model, and the distributor wouldn’t have accepted the return if we’d tried. At what point will the courts decide that post purchase contracts are unenforceable?

> At what point will the courts decide that post purchase contracts are unenforceable?

I believe EU has already done that. That'd be a hidden term, I believe.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treat...

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#158

Post by yencabulator »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #103
mook wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scratch off everything that requires internet access (in this case the Home Assistant integration talked to the vendor's API servers). See also previous discussion on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39044932

curious, is there a vendor that isn't "cloud-first" today? I've never seen an appliance that doesn't call home

My Venstar T7900 thermostat has a local HTTP API. It has some cloud stuff too, but I've never created an account or let it talk to the Internet.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#159

Post by tzs »

detaro wrote: post #90
tzs wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't appear to be a DMCA takedown request, so I doubt Github would care. This appears to be the company contacting the developer directly to ask that they withdraw the code.

because a company asking for a takedown would never file a takedown request afterwards?

In this case probably not. DMCA takedown requests are only for alleged copyright infringement. The allegation here is that the software is using an API on a company server in violation of the terms of use.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#160

Post by gsich »

lxe wrote: post #132
lxe wrote: post #128

I was researching whether there's legal precedent making such uses legal, and ChatGPT pointed out that "Sony Corporation of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc.," where it was decided that developing a VCR where users can record Universal's content is legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Unive... . I think this applies here as well. Curious how this will play out.

Here's the chat log if you're curious: https://chat.openai.com/share/6386ad1f-a44d-4cc1-a5d1-0e3c3c... Sega Enterprises Ltd. v. Accolade, Inc.: In this 1992 case, the court held that Accolade's reverse engineering of Sega's game console for the purpose of developing compatible games without licensing was a fair use. Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. v. Connectix Corporation: In 2000, the court ruled that Connectix's…

Have you verified the court cases? ChatGPT answers are usually garbage when it comes to facts.
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