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Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

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Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#331

Post by gardenhedge »

paxys wrote: post #181
tehjoker wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's a dismal way to look at it. Regulations should be in place to prevent these kinds of business practices. For example, if a user doesn't use a service, perhaps they should get a refund for those months.

This is exactly the problem I am talking about. Why is the first instinct to always externalize blame? Why is big government the default solution to everything? How about – if you are not getting value out of a subscription (that you signed up for), go and cancel it. And if you choose not to, don't blame the rest of the world for your money problems.

Consumer protection laws exist for a reason

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#332

Post by carlosjobim »

lwhi wrote: post #175
paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

It's not bizarre when you consider the lengths companies go to, to try convince those who can least afford it to make a purchase. The most vulnerable are used a fodder for a vast capitalist system.

Industrialisation means that most consumer goods are mass produced. That means these companies need to make their money from wide sales instead of tall sales. Wide as in getting as many individual customers as possible, instead of tall as in selling bespoke products for an expensive price to few customers.

Very few people need more than one washing machine. Well off people already own washing machines. So if you're selling washing machines, you need to make a way for as many poor people as possible to be able to buy them, hence credit and split payments.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#333

Post by Rayhem »

Alupis wrote: post #115
wolverine876 wrote: post #64

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

> The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. I disagree. I routinely go months in between using some of my various subscriptions - be it Netflix, Hulu, Audible, etc. I would be very upset if they cancelled o…

You can advocate for more personal responsibility and also advocate for businesses to behave in the interests of individual human beings. They're not mutually exclusive. Just because I don't want a business to extort every last cent from me they can doesn't mean I want to absolve myself of all responsibility to everything ever.

> Review your bank/credit accounts

I mean, shouldn't it be your responsibility to know exactly how much money you've made and spent? Why should a bank provide this information for you? Does this not serve as yet another lessening of personal accountability (pun *absolutely* intended)?

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#334

Post by olyjohn »

brvsft wrote: post #260
slumberlust wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool that you've found a system that works to avoid the abuse, but it's still abusive.

Which part is abusive? I might view that last item as a sort of dark pattern (exploiting the sunk cost fallacy), but I still fail to see how it's abusive. If you're not using the service, cancel your subscription? Is everything you don't like even slightly now qualified as ABUSE ?

You acknowledge it's a dark pattern, but then excuse it. Dark patterns are 100% abuse.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#335

Post by jjulius »

Loughla wrote: post #261
paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

I'm with you on every point except >negotiating rents I have never, ever been in a situation where a rent negotiation would have done anything except ensure I didn't get the apartment. Is that real? Where?

Anecdotally...

I've lived throughout the US - Seattle, Atlanta, East Bay, Portland - and each time I've leased a place I've pushed back and asked for cheaper rent. Sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't, but that's never ended a conversation or resulted in them walking away.

The home I'm renting now, I asked my landlord to reduce their proposed rent increase by 75% if we committed to a two-year lease, and they were fine with that. Never been an issue for me, and if a potential landlord bristles at something like that, then it's a sign that things may not be so great after I've signed the lease.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#336

Post by Spivak »

darth_avocado wrote: post #131
paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

Some of these are valid issues though. I'd consider myself in top 1% when it comes to financial health and I still pay for stuff I forgot to cancel. Some of the reasons: > They make you call between 9 am and 5 pm, and hold for hours to cancel, sometimes even disconnect forcing you to start over, while not offering a callback option. Sometimes there are weeks I absolutely cannot afford to do this because of work. > Yo…

Most of them could be solved by our CC system putting people in control. Wanna cancel NYT, stop payment and let them come to you if they want to bother. The fact that people can just take money from our accounts on a whim and we have to beg them to get it back or stop is a ridiculous system. I would much rather deal with invoices.

The only system where they just charge you I like is the usage model. I get a bill from AWS, OpenAI, and Backblaze every month for a few dollars but if I stop using them the bill drops to $0.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#337

Post by sahila »

jjulius wrote: post #330
paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

>It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country (especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. But, see... >No one is looking out for you. ... that's just it, isn't it? Nobody's looking out for you. We send kids to public school from ages five to eighteen, but at a broad level, we do not have a requirement for any of that education to be about how to take c…

But you can teach yourself, like how most everyone who is looking over themselves financially did. Learning doesn't end with schooling, and for most they know that, doing dance, art, and sport classes for example all on their own. It’s just that financial literacy isn’t a priority.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#338

Post by olyjohn »

bluGill wrote: post #270
squeaky-clean wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only can they terminate your account and potentially block that card in the future across other services using the same payment provider, more expensive subscriptions like a gym WILL continue accruing a bill for you and will send it to collections which hurts your credit score.

You can dispute that with the credit services though. Which probably won't get you anywhere but it is worth doing. Make sure you give them negative feedback with the BBB if canceling is too hard. Though the business model of most gyms (except the expensive ones) is to get you to enroll and then not come, so they won't care.

If it won't get you anywhere... then how is it worth doing? What a waste of time.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#339

Post by rappatic »

hartator wrote: post #299
paxys wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gyms, cloud storage, restaurant buffets, insurance all follow this business model. If everyone paying into it actually expected to extract their entire money's worth of value the whole industry would collapse.

> restaurant buffets Buffets have monthly subcriptions?

No, their entire model is based on the assumption that users could extract maximum value from the buffet (eating everything) but typically don't (have a normal- to large-sized meal, the supply cost of which is obviously far less than what the customer pays to get in). The parent commenter's point is that many businesses are run this way (eg. the gym is not equipped for 100% of subscribers to go to the gym every day, just as the buffet is not equipped for 100% of customers to eat a huge amount).

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#340

Post by JumpCrisscross »

idopmstuff wrote: post #168
rectang wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unpay for it. This is the utility of credit cards. That's a facile answer. You're extremely well educated on this matter and know full well the downsides of "unpaying". EDIT: see sibling comment from "notaustinpowers" for an explanation of the downsides (thanks!). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39060260

Use a temporary credit card number that's only authorized for one payment. When it doesn't work the second year, they'll let you know you need to pay. Sign up and immediately cancel/turn off billing, so you aren't charged again next year (again, they'll send you a bunch of notices ahead of the end of your service). Put a calendar reminder in for 11.5 months out from when you sign up. In Slack, /remind me in 11.5 mont…

> Use a temporary credit card number that's only authorized for one payment

These get sold to a collections company. Invalid payment doesn’t invalidate the contract.

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