Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#271

Post by brvsft » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:11 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #127

paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

The rapacious corporations agree with you — no matter how deceptive or even illegal their practices are, no matter how much R&D money is brought to bear in designing innovative user interfaces and bureaucratic frameworks which systematically exploit human weaknesses (particularly those of vulnerable populations such as less-tech-savvy elders) to bleed the populace dry... it's all the fault of the individual victims w…

These comments are so blatantly absurd considering in all the cases we're talking about, the user signed up for the service initially. Even if it's a trial, the user is forced to make it abundantly recognized that they will be charged money when the trial is over because they are forced to input credit card information or authorize use of Apple Pay or some other similar service to enter the trial.

I can understand suggesting that services like this, especially when using tech like Apple Pay, have made it too easy to 'check out' through a trial process, but the language is still over-the-top since the user is still clearly considering the product as potentially useful to go through the effort of signing up for a trial or an actual sub. (And on the flipside, Apple Pay, e.g., makes it easy to see all subs in one place and cancel them in one place, so it has that going for it.)

And of course, what illegal practices are you talking about? I'm going to guess most people here aren't blaming the victim if a practice is actually illegal. But I see you're being hyperbolic so maybe I shouldn't bother.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#272

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

jmholla wrote: post #268

I feel like this might be a good place to share something I learned recently about credit cards: interest accrues daily, not by statement (e.g. monthly). Further, your statement does not accurately reflect what you owe for that billing period. Instead, the interest for that period will be reflected on your next bill. I had errantly figured I could postpone my payments to the due date and not accrue interest, but that…

[deleted]

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#273

Post by snarf21 » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:12 PM UTC

karaterobot wrote: post #228

> Their average response was $62. When they were given more time to guess again, they increased their estimate to $96. They were still way off. The correct answer was $273. I have been in rooms at SaaS companies where the fact that people forget to cancel the subscription was described as an important benefit of the subscription model, and a reason to set the price at something easily overlooked. People are terrible…

Yeah, was just going to say this is Planet Fitness' whole value prop .. Cheap enough that the lie you tell yourself that you will go more next month is easily worth $10 / month.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#274

Post by brvsft » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:15 PM UTC

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #244

gedy wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misrepresenting OPs point. We all know many people who are extremely sloppy with their personal finances, and sign up for things they can't afford, debt they are unlikely to pay back, etc. Am I sad for companies who take in these people as customers? No, but let's not canonize people who are reckless with their spending, even when warned.

> We all know many people who are extremely sloppy with their personal finances, and sign up for things they can't afford, debt they are unlikely to pay back, etc. You know I have heard this my entire life, and I have yet to actually meet any of these people. The people I have met though fall into one or more of a number of categories: - People uneducated in finance, usually lower class: You can say things like "well…

> And like, all of that aside, even if you meet NONE of those categories, I still, frankly, believe it's not only possible but the only ethical response to all of this is: we should have a society that leaves enough room for people to fuck up occasionally without ruining their goddamn lives.

At this point, I don't understand what the fuck you people are talking about. This is an article about people paying for subscriptions they don't use, not people ruining their goddamn lives. The hyperbole is extensive, is this article posted to some Socialist Discord so everyone can raid the comments? Why is this level of bad faith discussion occurring?

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#275

Post by bluGill » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:15 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #261

paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

I'm with you on every point except >negotiating rents I have never, ever been in a situation where a rent negotiation would have done anything except ensure I didn't get the apartment. Is that real? Where?

With a small landlord it is sometimes possible. Even with the large ones if you let them know you are looking at moving you can sometimes get a discount for the year. Note that you need to be serious about moving to pull this off: you need to actively look at other places to live, and be ready/willing to follow through and move if they don't give you what you want. Apartments are competitive markets for new renters, but once someone is there the hassle of moving means people are often willing to pay more.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#276

Post by bluGill » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:16 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #201

paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

You suggest that spending 30 minutes a month can improve someones financial situation. In those 30 minutes they could cancel unused subscriptions and maybe save $50 a month. $50 a month isn't bad, but it's not going to be the difference between retiring comfortably and not retiring. Or they could spend those 30 minutes updating their resume and applying to a job; if they apply for a better job every month they could…

$50 a month won't get your retied, but it will free up some cash to use for better purposes.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#277

Post by civilized » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:16 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

There is more than one way to feel about this situation! I watch my finances, but the hours I spend on it feel wasted, and I am resentful of the people whose parasitic attitudes towards my bank account make this necessary.

It's as if, when I go to relax or exercise, my only option is hiking in a tick-infested field. I spend an extra 15 minutes prepping my clothes before going out, and an extra 15 minutes checking every inch of my body after I come back in.

It's true that all this extra work is my responsibility. It's also true that ticks suck (literally) and it would be preferable if there were a way to prevent them from parasitizing me in the first place.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#278

Post by bobthepanda » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:17 PM UTC

brvsft wrote: post #260

slumberlust wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool that you've found a system that works to avoid the abuse, but it's still abusive.

Which part is abusive? I might view that last item as a sort of dark pattern (exploiting the sunk cost fallacy), but I still fail to see how it's abusive. If you're not using the service, cancel your subscription? Is everything you don't like even slightly now qualified as ABUSE ?

The hostile “you must call into an understaffed call center and hold for several hours” is definitely abusive. I believe NYT was particularly bad about this in the past.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#279

Post by bluGill » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:17 PM UTC

Algemarin wrote: post #136

paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

> This discussion is about subscriptions but the general idea applies to so much more – basic budgeting, retirement savings, not paying random fees, not paying interest, moving spare money to investment accounts every month, rebalancing your investments every quarter, negotiating rents, negotiating your salary. I think it's one of the major failures of the education system. Why is there no class in school which cover…

IF you don't know the basics of math you won't figure out personal finance. If you do know math you can figure it out - that isn't saying you will, but you can.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#280

Post by tomcar288 » Fri, Jan 19, 2024, 9:17 PM UTC

darth_avocado wrote: post #131

paxys wrote: post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

Some of these are valid issues though. I'd consider myself in top 1% when it comes to financial health and I still pay for stuff I forgot to cancel. Some of the reasons: > They make you call between 9 am and 5 pm, and hold for hours to cancel, sometimes even disconnect forcing you to start over, while not offering a callback option. Sometimes there are weeks I absolutely cannot afford to do this because of work. > Yo…

my solution to this is to not have any subscriptions except for property taxes, garbage, utilities, insurance and phone plan. and I absolutely avoid 30 day free trials (if they ask for credit card info) like the plague. the moment I see a credit card number entry field, I close the browser tab immediately.

but, I'd like to know, which companies have onerous cancellation policies?