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Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

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171–180 of 677 posts

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#171

I don't understand, do people not log in online to look at their credit card statements? It takes 5 minutes to skim your transactions, look for suspicious charges, get a quick read on where money is going. There are lots of challenges to actually canceling subscriptions, but not knowing that you're being charged for something every month? Seems absent-minded to me.

Most HNers have never held a job outside of a high paying tech job. When you're working retail and struggling to pay bills, literally all you think about is money. So much so that it is debilitating from the stress. When you're under that much pressure constantly, it is very easy to miss something. "But, if it's that bad, they shouldn't even be signing up for this stuff!", I hear some of you saying. You look for an e…

I worked my way up, I'm 41 and working non-stop since I was 12 receiving a check as a paperboy. Worked at tire shops, autobody, whatever you can imagine. Before I was a paperboy, I ground down spot welding tips in my dad's shop to buy my toys and video games. Worked night shifts during community college and university. Fully qualified for SS in my 20s. Never a dollar from mommy and daddy. I haven't even received a Christmas or birthday gift in 20 years.

Developer now (a career mistake honestly), but back then I would've never had any subscriptions. Can't imagine being back in those shoes and having the TIME to fully utilize Netflix, Spotify etc.

My advice is if you're in that position, work more. Study more or work more. Trying to avoid it with some escape like watching Netflix is not productive and only makes things worse.

When I was in college, I kept a strict schedule. Classes from 9AM-1PM, work from 2PM-7PM, 7PM-12:30AM I was in the library studying until it closed. My grades suffered but there wasn't any time for TV. I simply cannot imagine getting ahead NOT doing this, and sitting on Spotify or Netflix instead. Almost scary, guaranteed way to remain a dud. But I'm sure it's common. Given life is harder now than it was 50 years ago, I'm sure the lack of effort + lazy ways is why everyone thinks times are so tough. If times are tough, we need to become tough.

For me, that life was satisfying. I needed no "escape", as I liked and struggle to remain productive today and feel more than ever the need for an escape. I often tell people my hobby is "survival". Fixing my truck, reviewing/fine tuning my finances, working on my house, strategizing for life. The issue isn't not enough time watching Youtube. It's that I'm not productive enough.

Doubly true for the "downtrodden" poor. It's just that most of them are not the forgotten men, the abandoned hardy stock from the upper midwest that know what it takes to get ahead. They've been groomed to complain and sulk instead. It's a lot easier. When I meet these people I ask them, "have you done your best for the Lord?". They have everything they need, breath in their lungs. All I ever needed. It's disrespectful to Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ to not do our best in life. Once I see these people exhaust all possible options to improve their condition, then I'll give them a handout and sympathy. Till then, no Netflix, more work. Or suffer, whatever is preferred.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tend to act shocked when I tell them my finance app requires me to enter transactions manually and doesn't magically categorize everything. You spend a third of your life working for that money, surely you spend 5 minutes at most tracking how you spend it.

which finance app do you recommend?

YNAB is pretty good. I like their zero-based budget system.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#173

I don't understand, do people not log in online to look at their credit card statements? It takes 5 minutes to skim your transactions, look for suspicious charges, get a quick read on where money is going. There are lots of challenges to actually canceling subscriptions, but not knowing that you're being charged for something every month? Seems absent-minded to me.

Most HNers have never held a job outside of a high paying tech job. When you're working retail and struggling to pay bills, literally all you think about is money. So much so that it is debilitating from the stress. When you're under that much pressure constantly, it is very easy to miss something. "But, if it's that bad, they shouldn't even be signing up for this stuff!", I hear some of you saying. You look for an e…

See, I used to buy into this reasoning, but now, I'm not so sure.

You can easily say the same thing about someone who does work a high-tech job. You make so much money you stop looking at your bank accounts. There are so many new grads or even late 20s professionals who barely manage their finances beyond 1-2 months. I would argue middle-class folks manage the idea of a "6 month emergency fund" a lot better than those in high-tech who make 200k+ a year and just don't think about money anymore.

I think the right reasons are:

- folks don't know how to do this (literally what does it means to review your statements and check your accounts + what to look for)

- folks do not understand how manageable it can be once you spend the initial activation energy

- last and maybe most controversial, folks don't have the ability to make it a habit (which then causes every few months for it to become a big hurdle).

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unpay for it. This is the utility of credit cards. That's a facile answer. You're extremely well educated on this matter and know full well the downsides of "unpaying". EDIT: see sibling comment from "notaustinpowers" for an explanation of the downsides (thanks!). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39060260

What are the downsides of disputing a charge?

If you unpay for, say, YouTube, I'm pretty sure Google will straight up delete you.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#175
post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

It's not bizarre when you consider the lengths companies go to, to try convince those who can least afford it to make a purchase.

The most vulnerable are used a fodder for a vast capitalist system.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#177
post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

A lot of it is genetic. Good luck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientiousness You have a lot of it, and so do the type A personality people on this site.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unpay for it. This is the utility of credit cards. That's a facile answer. You're extremely well educated on this matter and know full well the downsides of "unpaying". EDIT: see sibling comment from "notaustinpowers" for an explanation of the downsides (thanks!). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39060260

What are the downsides of disputing a charge?

"Most places have segments in their contract that state if you do a chargeback or block a payment, they will terminate your account, and payment providers can block that card from being used on their service in the future." Also, depending on the agreement, you can be sent to collections (gym memberships are notorious for this).

The chargeback doesn't supersede the vendor's control of access to the service or potential legal/debt obligations.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39060260

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#179

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

A subscription service is an agreement between a consumer and a business, where the consumer agrees to provide money in exchange for access to some service. That service might be something that they regularly receive, e.g. meal kits, or it might be something that they can choose to access, e.g. Spotify. In the former case, where there is a definite agreement that some item will be delivered, I agree with you; not providing that is fraudulent. It looks like you're talking about the latter case, though, and I starkly disagree there.

First, it is not the responsibility of the business to ensure people use the product that the business sold them. Why should it be? This standard doesn't exist for companies providing physical products. Someone could order a meal kit subscription, and after receiving the food every week, they could choose to throw it straight in the trash. The company shouldn't offer someone a refund because they chose to throw away the food they sent. The same principle applies for digital subscriptions - the subscriber is choosing to throw away access to whatever service the business provides.

Second, I think it's worth pointing out that the principle underlying your argument, that it is the responsibility of the payee to ensure the payer gets what they pay for, logically contradicts salaried or waged work. The principle you've implied is consistent with all services being paid for piecemeal, since if nothing is produced, nothing was received. This implies cashiers should be paid per transaction, chefs should be paid per meal, baristas should be paid per cup, etc. Maybe you do think that - I can't possibly know. However, I doubt you would support a minimum-wage worker having to return a day's pay to their employer if no customers showed up that day. I think that's silly, because in the absence of active demand, the employee is still providing a service: their presence, and thus the ability to fulfill transactions if requested.

I also think what you're saying not only absolves consumers of their responsibility, but also strips from them any agency in the matter. This is not a problem requiring collective action, like climate change. This is a problem where the individual's actions are 100% capable of resolving it. In a world where lots of issues are out of the individual's control, why not empower people to control what they can? Cancelling unwanted subscriptions is a simple and effective way to avoid unwanted subscription fees, and is available to every subscription-holder. Arguing that businesses should resolve, to their own detriment, a problem that consumers create, and can easily resolve, doesn't make any sense to me.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#180
post #106

It's bizarre to me just how many people in this country ( especially the ones who can least afford it) simply do not take charge of their financial health. Even in this very thread you can see all kinds of excuses ("it's too hard to log in and check credit card statements every month", "they make you call or chat to cancel so I don't bother", "they should cancel subscriptions automatically if you don't use them", "it…

Low conscientiousness is linked to anti-social behavior, blue-collared crimes, and crimes of passion,[3] as well as unemployment and homelessness.[19] Low conscientiousness and low agreeableness taken together are also associated with substance use disorders.[27] People low in conscientiousness have difficulty saving money and their risky borrowing practices make them fall prey to subprime and predatory lending more often than conscientious people. High conscientiousness is associated with more careful planning of shopping trips and less impulse buying of unneeded items.[19] Conscientiousness is positively correlated with business, white-collared, and premeditated criminal behavior.[28]
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