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Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

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Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#111

Post by supergeek133 »

asylteltine wrote: post #92

I’m really worried this will become common practice. We MUST fight against this otherwise they will take away open source from us. Making an integration to work with devices you own is NOT ILLEGAL. I’m happy to contribute to a qualified and trustworthy gofundme to protect devs. I myself have a few integrations I made and would refuse to take them down. Granted, I intentionally don’t use any “cloud” api garbage.

Haier (at least this product in the EU) doesn't have a published/public API.

The code in question scraped the API off of app/device traffic.

Also, Home Assistant is a locally focused platform, and when it uses cloud APIs it creates HUGE amounts of traffic for the amount of users that use it.

Source: I run a developer program for a different IoT company

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#112

Post by mook »

r9295 wrote: post #97

How is this different to Google copying Oracle's Java API? Is it because it's hardware?

The devices talk to Haier's servers, which Home Assistant (or rather a third-party integration) then talks to. It's dumb that it's required, but at least Haier's servers are involved.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#113

Post by nicholasjarnold »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #103
mook wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scratch off everything that requires internet access (in this case the Home Assistant integration talked to the vendor's API servers). See also previous discussion on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39044932

curious, is there a vendor that isn't "cloud-first" today? I've never seen an appliance that doesn't call home

Shelly devices are great. They have a "cloud" that you can optionally use, but the settings (at least on the switchable plug and the in-wall energy-monitoring switches that I have) default to that cloud connectivity being OFF. They seem to be aligned with those of us who prefer local data, interoperability and despise vendor lock-in and surveillance capitalism.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#114

Post by throwup238 »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #103
mook wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scratch off everything that requires internet access (in this case the Home Assistant integration talked to the vendor's API servers). See also previous discussion on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39044932

curious, is there a vendor that isn't "cloud-first" today? I've never seen an appliance that doesn't call home

Pretty much any vendor selling commercial appliances. SpeedQueen even gives you the choice of the old school mechanical controls. I don't know if they even have any smart consumer devices. They can be a bit more expensive but rarely break from household use.

For smaller non-appliance stuff there's CloudFree [1] which sells products from other vendors that can be reflashed with ESPHome (no affiliation, just a happy customer).

[1] https://cloudfree.shop/

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#115

Post by nicholasjarnold »

malermeister wrote: post #106
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious, is there a vendor that isn't "cloud-first" today? I've never seen an appliance that doesn't call home

The trick is to get a ZigBee device instead of a WiFi one. It's an inherently local-only protocol and you can make your computer a Hub with a $30 stick.

ZWave is another option here too. I wouldn't recommend devices that don't have at least a "500 series"[0] chipset, but pretty much any device you'd buy today or moving forward will contain this or a newer chipset.

[0] https://www.silabs.com/wireless/z-wave/500-series-modules

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#116

Post by asylteltine »

supergeek133 wrote: post #111
asylteltine wrote: post #92

I’m really worried this will become common practice. We MUST fight against this otherwise they will take away open source from us. Making an integration to work with devices you own is NOT ILLEGAL. I’m happy to contribute to a qualified and trustworthy gofundme to protect devs. I myself have a few integrations I made and would refuse to take them down. Granted, I intentionally don’t use any “cloud” api garbage.

Haier (at least this product in the EU) doesn't have a published/public API. The code in question scraped the API off of app/device traffic. Also, Home Assistant is a locally focused platform, and when it uses cloud APIs it creates HUGE amounts of traffic for the amount of users that use it. Source: I run a developer program for a different IoT company

So? If you don’t want people using your APIs there are ways to block them. If it’s public, don’t complain.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#117

Post by beeboobaa »

alias_neo wrote: post #96

I'm in the process of reverse engineering an appliance myself to allow it to be integrated with Home Assistant, one which requires an mobile app to operate remotely and is connected to the net all of the time, when it doesn't need to be. I was gifted this particular appliance, but the solution is really to just not give companies like this your money. Unfortunately it's easier said than done, but looking for things w…

If some company sells stuff that requires a connection to their cloud then it is 100% fair game to reverse and utilize that cloud to get the product working the way you want.

They have no right to be upset about that. They sold you a requirement to connect to that cloud. If they don't want anyone connecting to their cloud, then don't sell cloud connected junk.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#118

Post by okwhateverdude »

hangonhn wrote: post #107
smashah wrote: post #91

The tech community as a whole is dropping the ball by not advocating loudly and openly for adversarial interoperability. It is a fundamental digital right despite what nonsense-ese is present in any service's egregious terms and conditions. There needs to be an anti-adversarial interop specific complaint department at the EFF. Otherwise one day, one of these developers will take the lack of support at its face and ch…

I am very ignorant about this topic. Can you please explain what "adversarial interoperability" means? The term sounds very intriguing.

I intuited the phrase in context to roughly mean that APIs are fair game for respectful contact by everyone including competitors. It wouldn't mean they need to provide a open api spec or make it easy, but it couldn't be a ToS violation or something forbidden to access.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#119

Post by beeboobaa »

smeej wrote: post #104
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious, is there a vendor that isn't "cloud-first" today? I've never seen an appliance that doesn't call home

The one that frustrates me the most is Home Depot's HubSpace. You do not have to link the devices to the router. They can be operated by Bluetooth. However, the app to control them cannot work without a connection to the server. It has no local device functions at all. It won't even launch if their servers are offline. That's just next-level stupid to me. Why build in a useless option? If Bluetooth won't work without…

At some point a team of developers fought for local control. They lost but it's too expensive to rip out again. So management chooses to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. Stalking your users is so much more profitable.

Re: Haier hits Home Assistant plugin dev with takedown notice

#120

Post by pavel_lishin »

beeboobaa wrote: post #117
alias_neo wrote: post #96

I'm in the process of reverse engineering an appliance myself to allow it to be integrated with Home Assistant, one which requires an mobile app to operate remotely and is connected to the net all of the time, when it doesn't need to be. I was gifted this particular appliance, but the solution is really to just not give companies like this your money. Unfortunately it's easier said than done, but looking for things w…

If some company sells stuff that requires a connection to their cloud then it is 100% fair game to reverse and utilize that cloud to get the product working the way you want. They have no right to be upset about that. They sold you a requirement to connect to that cloud. If they don't want anyone connecting to their cloud, then don't sell cloud connected junk.

> They have no right to be upset about that.

Emotionally, ethically, morally, sure. Legally? We'll see how this shakes out, I guess.

But yeah - this is one of the reasons why nothing in my home is smart. I fully can't bring myself to trust any company to not eventually fuck me, either intentionally, or by going out of business and bricking some C&C server, or by selling themselves to some assholes.

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