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Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

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131–140 of 177 posts

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#131

If Microsoft cutting cost by limiting storage capacity can be construed to be done for environmental reasons, then why can't Google lay-offs be construed similarly? This is not changing the mix of energy production, it is not changing the supply of energy, it just changes the demand. Lay-offs similarly also reduce the demand on energy since people have less money to buy things that are energy intensive to produce, an…

What is the point you're making? MSFT don't care about the environment because they're choosing reducing storage energy usage over famine and war?

They are choosing cost reduction. If this increased cost, they would not have done it. So the primary driver is not the environmental benefits, it's the cost. I think what bothers me more is that people are so easily deceived by this.

Again, cost-cutting is great, especially when it can be done with no impact to consumers and employees, because those are humans I care about.

In this case, it is at the expense of consumers, the people who are affected are getting less for their money. Shrinkflation if you will, but because of the corporate, bureaucratic and dysfunctional mess between the people paying and the people choosing MSFT — and the way MSFT operates, which is by bundling basically everything but the kitchen sink — there really is no practical way for the consumer to shop around with their money for a better cloud storage deal.

MSFT could still be the most inefficient storage, cloud storage space from competitors could be much more energy efficient for the same amount of GB — but the storage will stay with MSFT because they bundle it with everything else.

This has nothing to do with the efficiency of cloud storage or the carbon footprint of cloud storage. It has to do with giving people less value for the money that MSFT gets, and it works out because MSFT has done everything they can to ensure that there is no way this will result in revenue reduction.

From a shareholder perspective, this is great, you should give customers the least amount you can for their money so you can maximize profits, but if you tie this together with the immoral business practices of MSFT it really becomes very detrimental to society, the environment, and consumers.

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for "power users" or people who buy/receive devices often, it's easy to have way too many chargers. A lot of other people buy a new phone every 3-5 years, and by that point, your cables are probably worn out and your charger might even be broken and some of them lost. Older chargers also operate at a much lower wattage, and with batteries getting bigger, charging time will be dramatically longer for people st…

>> and by that point, your cables are probably worn out Apple(and everyone else, as far as I know) includes the cable though. And it's hard to wear out a power brick that just sits plugged into a socket all day. >>assuming they're even compatible, since not everything used USB3 a few years ago Apple chargers were always just AC to USB-A though, so all you need to change is the cable. Which....comes included with the…

Apple now ships a USB C cable. They shipped 1 year of iPhone with a USB C brick, so I doubt most iPhone users had one except maybe for their MacBook.

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sad to inform you that we are surrounded by average people and they dictate where we all go. You asked "how many cloud services will have to give people unpleasant experiences for those same people to stop going all in on cloud services" , and the answer to that is "Ain't nobody got time to 'puter." . No, I'm not being facetious; I'm serious. The average person wants to use computers to enrich their lives, not m…

My point was not to limit the actions of average people, my point is to inform that cloud services have locked out people due to algorithms errors, have had data loss, have changed the ToS, etc. And average people should take their decisions being informed data cloud storage is volatile and can / has disappeared

Those horror stories by far do not apply to most people. Like all horror stories, the negative incidents leave far stronger impressions than the far more numerous positive or mundane experiences nobody talks about.

Also, I'm going to reply to this claim here since it was edited in after I already replied:

>Filesystems et cetera, are not rocket science,

File systems are absolutely rocket science.

It's been well over 30 years since that paradigm was introduced to try and make how computers handle data more relatable to most people and it has not worked.

It is the year 2024 and most people still put everything on their desktop. Kids in particular[1] do not grasp file systems at all.

File systems are an abject failure of human interface design and engineering.

[1]: https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/09/27/2032200/students-do...

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#134
post #47

On the Microsoft page[1] about this change they say > Storage of this “dark” data takes up space on servers and results in increased electricity consumption, generating 4% of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2020 alone. Where "dark" data is data that is unused. However they link to this World Economic Forum Page [2] which says > In 2020, digitisation was purported to generate 4% of global greenhouse gas emissions.…

Isn't it more misleading to claim that this is just due to environmental reasons? The first link you provide actually says the first reason is due to security (you wouldn't believe how often student accounts are compromised and/or used for sharing pirated content). The second reason is the environment, and the 3rd, reason, even though they don't say it outright, is cost, and I'm guessing that's the real reason. But g…

Sorry, what? 100TB is stingy as! At my institution, there's approximately 50000 students and staff, if 100TB is all they get, that's only 2GB each (and that's not just for email, that's for all storage)!

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud storage is better than local storage for the average person. * The average person does not do backups. No, he will not do backups. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this very real, very basic problem. * The average person does not understand file systems. No, he will not understand file systems. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this problem by Abstraction(tm). * The average person does no…

>The average person does not do backups. No, he will not do backups. No! He seriously won't. Cloud storage solves this very real, very basic problem. It should be technically feasible to make setting up backups to your own NAS at home as easy as backups to iCloud. So if people are backing up to iCloud, I do not see why they would not backup to their own NAS. Same for why they do not need to understand a file system j…

The average person doesn’t have (and hasn’t even heard of) “their own NAS”.

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#136
post #12

This looks like a change in policy for personal student accounts. If this person is doing something related to research, their own group should provide a solution for data management and backups. I really don't see the problem here, other than using "the environment" as a bullshit excuse for cost savings.

Yes, the actual scientific data should be in a central storage location or ideally in an SDMS or similar system.

Those likely got cut because the funding went to Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#137
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They cut chargers so they wouldn’t have to change them for the EU. The environment, as usual, is for greenwashing the move.

Eh? That makes zero sense. The EU mandates the type of port on your device, not the type of charger bundled or not bundled with it. It makes even less sense given that the Apple chargers were always just dumb USB-A chargers with a separate cable - and apple still bundles the cable. So the actual charger part wouldn't have changed no matter what EU decided on this matter.

Perhaps referring to having to stock different SKUs of iPhone for each different plug type.

Now the phones only need to be unique to radio requirements.

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#138
post #80
post #13

Microsoft is following Google decision two years ago to stop their more generous (than MS) storage plan for educational institutions. A lot of the people who had MS offering instead of google were saying that they are safe with their choice. 1TB is much more reasonable than "unlimited" and Microsoft would keep it. Now here we are. Happy to be part of CERN so I don't have to worry about my institution storage situatio…

I guess there are more generous nowadays than they used to be, I surely didn't had such storage access during early 2000's.

Gmail was launched in 2004 with 1GB of free storage, increasing to 2GB in 2005. Adjusting for HDD costs in those years compared to today (according to [1]) that's the equivalent of 40GB or 57GB today. And that's for the general public, not just educational institutions.

Not sure anyone gave you generous free FTP space back then, and Dropbox wasn't invented yet. But people did absolutely abuse gmail for file storage.

1: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/historical-cost-of-comput...

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#139

If Microsoft cutting cost by limiting storage capacity can be construed to be done for environmental reasons, then why can't Google lay-offs be construed similarly? This is not changing the mix of energy production, it is not changing the supply of energy, it just changes the demand. Lay-offs similarly also reduce the demand on energy since people have less money to buy things that are energy intensive to produce, an…

“Our business footprint is 300 tons of CO2 a year. We are shutting down our operations worldwide in order to protect the people from the future. Thanks for all the BSOD”

Re: Microsoft limits institutional cloud storage space for environmental reasons

#140
post #47

On the Microsoft page[1] about this change they say > Storage of this “dark” data takes up space on servers and results in increased electricity consumption, generating 4% of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2020 alone. Where "dark" data is data that is unused. However they link to this World Economic Forum Page [2] which says > In 2020, digitisation was purported to generate 4% of global greenhouse gas emissions.…

> > In 2020, digitisation was purported to generate 4% of global greenhouse gas emissions. > So the 4% figure is not the storage of only dark data, but the storage of ALL data. Even that sounds like a misread. "Digitisation" can refer to the sum total of moving a product or service or process to be digitised; that would also include the compute cost as well as the storage.

And how does that 4% compare to previous/alternative methods of data acquisition, storage, and transportation?

Producing, storing, and shipping masses of paper documents (and related printing equipment) isn't particularly efficient. And video/audio would need storing on physical disks/tapes, and so on.

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