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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#991
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few vendors who sell on Amazon. With advertising, they end up paying close to 60% of the selling price to Amazon.

How can Amazon pricing be so competitive if the cut is so large for third-party vendors?

Because these third-party vendors are, most of the time, selling third-party China manufactured stuff at 1/10 of the price they are selling it to you. The problem is that China can't communicate well enough. At least not for niche products.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#992
post #714

The real problem with the Apple Tax — it ruins value-chain and makes it uneconomical For every value created a customer receives there is value captured by a company paid by this customer. Let's say a company creates a service valued as 1X by the customer and the customer pays 1X for that. This balance guarantees accessibility and interest among many customers. Apple tax demands for a customer to pay 1.43X for the sa…

But but but I love my walled garden ...

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#993
post #714

The real problem with the Apple Tax — it ruins value-chain and makes it uneconomical For every value created a customer receives there is value captured by a company paid by this customer. Let's say a company creates a service valued as 1X by the customer and the customer pays 1X for that. This balance guarantees accessibility and interest among many customers. Apple tax demands for a customer to pay 1.43X for the sa…

To be honest it sounds like you've swallowed an econ 101 textbook along with a few libertarian talking points. I was just waiting for you wheel out Deadweight loss. The problem with modelling this as a tax is that... it's not a tax in a pure sense. Apple has partly built the product that you're selling. You're building on their hardware with their libraries and their APIs and their servers and their quality control.…

> Why would they build APIs for you? Why would they distribute your app at all. What happens for example if we pass a law tomorrow saying "Sorry Apple, you can only collect enough for credit card fees".

They would do it because they make massive margins off hardware. Apple can't build good software and third party iOS devs are a major reason why the iPhone is successful.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arcade is for games only. Also, any discontinued games on Arcade immediately stop working on any device where you have downloaded them. Apps from the regular App Store stay functional, even when discontinued. If you thought you couldn't have less ownership than with the stuff from the App Store, Arcade shows you how. You're merely a tenant, and even if you keep paying the rent, stuff just disappears.

The fact that arcade still exists tells me that people actually pay for it, which is very unfortunate to see so many gullible people out there who are willing to be taken advantage of so much.

I'm a happy Apple Arcade user and it's been great for games that I used to love. Temple Run is an example. I bought it, loved it, but each update had more and more advertisements showing up in the game. A game I paid for. Now I have it in Arcade, and it's advertisement free.

I feel more taken advantage of by the original maker than I do Apple.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's literally no choice but to sign the things - regardless of terms - if you want your users to have software that runs. I suspect the EU will at some point, they have haven't already, make terms that must be accepted to continue void.

EU already forbids consumer contracts from e.g. having the business force a change of terms (though ending the contract on disagreement might count as good enough behavior). https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treat...

I suspect if the EU courts consider denying access to a website if they refuse GDPR permissions illegal they'll probably consider ending a contract based on not accepting new terms as forced.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not that easy, Telegram tried very hard but got forced into apple restrictions in web browsers, you can read many complaints about it from the founder

Exactly how was telegram forced? Are they trying to operate in both pools at the same time? I am under no legal contracts with Apple, aside from any EULAs I may have clicked through for iOS, etc.

if i remember right something something webkit restrictions

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#997
post #910

At this point, it's worth remembering that one of the points on which Epic lost was Apple's right to take a cut of transactions. I found this discussion of the Apple v. Epic ruling to be informative: > as discussed in the findings of facts, IAP is the method by which Apple collects its licensing fee from developers for the use of Apple’s intellectual property. Even in the absence of IAP, Apple could still charge a co…

Then Epic might've won the battle but lost the war. I don't think this is the end.

It sounds to me the exact opposite.

Apple's bad-faith compliance will backfire. Enough of this.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#998
post #264

And Apple wonders why Android has 70% market share (and growing)

Do you have a source for the growing numbers? On all accounts it seems to have plateaued, and even slightly down in the past 5 years - https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ios-vs-android-market-s...

the link you provided also clearly shows android global market share over 70% by 2022 estimates.... here is another research report that claims Android at 81% market share [0]

[0] https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insights/global-smartph...

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#999
post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get where the equivalence of "iPhone user" and "rich person" comes from. It's $1000, most people have acess to that kind of money, even if they need to finance it and even if it is a terrible financial decision for them to buy one, many still do.

> It's $1000, most people have acess to that kind of money "Most people" don't. I maybe do but it's at least half of my monthly income after tax & rent Worldwide, iPhone user = rich person (and also almost any American = rich person). By being on App Store, Epic had access to those users. Then they lost millions of users after Epic left App Store. You reap what you sow.

As I said, it might be a terrible financial decision to finance a phone, but a lot of people still make that decision.

You don't need to be rich to have a payment plan of $40 a month for 3 years.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's paying for this IP, then? The consumer, who bought the device? Surely the cost of development of said IP is in total recouped from device sales? The device doesn't work without said framework. The developers who provide a reason to buy the device? Why should they be forced to use a monopolistic platform only because Apple's marketing has successfully clouded consumers' heads? Humans are terrible at actually boy…

My guess is users would only notice if a few dozen developers were gone, and the rest of them make apps that are only a little bit better than web apps if that. Watch and Mac are more or less failed developer platforms (how many native 3rd party apps exist for them?) yet are also both huge businesses just with Apple apps.

Let's see what I have open on my Mac right now: Chrome, Firefox, VSCode, Slack, Teams, Outlook, Spotify, Activity Monitor, TextEdit, Preview, Cura, Docker Desktop.

Of these Apple is only responsible for 2 of them: textedit I could replace with vscode tbf and activity monitor is only open for when the Macbook plays up (constantly) and doesn't even offer remotely useful _aggregate_ stats like "what the fuck is actually consuming all of my memory".

I use Android so let's see what's open on my phone: Ebay, Telegram, Firefox. Hmmm nothing specifically Samsung/Google related. Just because you make a device with an OS doesn't mean you get to charge rent. Flat charge app developers for the minor admin involved in them submitting apps but charging a percentage is a ludicrous anti-consumer money grab. Doesn't matter if it's Apple, Google or anybody else.

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