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Flattr is closing down (2023)

flattr.com

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Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#151

Post by squidbeak »

strbean wrote: post #142
freediver wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to push back on this. It is not that people are too selfish, but that there is not much content truly worth paying for. This is because ads proliferated not just creation of giant amounts of content but they also incentivize quantity over quality. Second thing that is holding this back is no seamless way to send a payment from your browser to the website (owner). This has to be native in the browser, user-ce…

"Is the content worth paying for?" feels like the wrong metric wrt. tipping. I think a more accurate question is "Does the content make me want to support the creator?" This is why tipping thrives in settings like Twitch, which is heavily geared around engendering parasocial relationships.

I don't follow... If the content isn't good enough to pay for, why would you want to support its creator?

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#152

Post by [deleted] »

boplicity wrote: post #145

I don't see creators clamoring for micropayments. The reason is simple: It's not a good way to actually earn an income. Creators need stable and predictable support. Subscriptions work much better for them. It's a tried-and-true business model. What advocates of microtransactions don't see: It turns something that absolutely should not be a commodity (creative work), into a commodity. That's the fundamental failure h…

[deleted]

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#153

Post by notatoad »

boplicity wrote: post #145

I don't see creators clamoring for micropayments. The reason is simple: It's not a good way to actually earn an income. Creators need stable and predictable support. Subscriptions work much better for them. It's a tried-and-true business model. What advocates of microtransactions don't see: It turns something that absolutely should not be a commodity (creative work), into a commodity. That's the fundamental failure h…

>What advocates of microtransactions don't see: It turns something that absolutely should not be a commodity (creative work), into a commodity.

as an advocate for microtransactions: yes, i see this. but i think you've got it backwards. nobody is "turning creative work into a commodity". it already is, and creators and marketplaces are both happy to treat it like one when they're selling their work. Creatives don't like micropayments because they don't like to so explicitly acknowledge that their work output is a commodity.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#154

Post by felixg3 »

dewey wrote: post #134
felixg3 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve been my interviewer at what.cd, ~ 2011. Glad to see you here!

Yes, I remember your name (also from last.fm I believe!). Small world!

If you want to grab a cold or hot beverage in Berlin, I’m about to visit my wife in Berlin-Charlottenburg (she‘s there for a few months) soon

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#155

Post by pflenker »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

I had multiple discussions with German news projects around micropayments, and they list other, much simpler reasons why they don’t accept it: - depending on the payment method, the transaction cost is too high and eats up almost the full payment - the administrative overhead to maintain micro transactions is huge - it creates the incentive to create articles that sell well, e.g. clickbait, which contradicts the values of these projects - you need to plan ahead and for that you need to have a somewhat predictable flow of income, which is not a given with micropayments.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#156

Post by SkyBelow »

diggan wrote: post #109
amadeuspagel wrote: post #13

Flattr is the kind of idea that sounds great, that people love talking about - if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. This is why ads are the only viable business model for a kind of "ephemeral website" - something you visit only briefly, derive some short knowledge or pleasure from until you follow a link somewhere el…

> if only they could make a small donation to every website they liked - but that doesn't work because people are fundamentally too selfish. Hear hear, this is exactly why bittorrent trackers is just a fad that will disappear as quickly as it appeared. What, are people supposed to just share data freely without getting paid for it? Good luck I tell them, it's impossible because every single person is just too selfish…

Isn't this why many groups look at how much one uploaded and you can get lower priority or lose access if you don't seed enough?

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#157

Post by apantel »

itsoktocry wrote: post #103
infecto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly agree. I still wish when it came to news sites there was a micropayment option so I could read a single article for $0.10 or something along those lines.

> so I could read a single article for $0.10 or something along those lines. But there is "something along those lines"; it's called becoming a paid subscriber. When you amortize the expense across every article, you may even be getting a deal! The fact that the example expense you'd be willing to incur to read content you actually enjoy is ten cents speaks to why this model won't work.

Content just isn’t worth a lot because nobody really needs any particular piece of information all that much; and if they do really need a piece of information, chances are it is available in many places.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#158

Post by wlesieutre »

squidbeak wrote: post #151
strbean wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is the content worth paying for?" feels like the wrong metric wrt. tipping. I think a more accurate question is "Does the content make me want to support the creator?" This is why tipping thrives in settings like Twitch, which is heavily geared around engendering parasocial relationships.

I don't follow... If the content isn't good enough to pay for, why would you want to support its creator?

It’s not that I’m too selfish to give someone a dollar for content that I liked, it’s that I’m too lazy

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#159

Post by jimmygrapes »

squidbeak wrote: post #151
strbean wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is the content worth paying for?" feels like the wrong metric wrt. tipping. I think a more accurate question is "Does the content make me want to support the creator?" This is why tipping thrives in settings like Twitch, which is heavily geared around engendering parasocial relationships.

I don't follow... If the content isn't good enough to pay for, why would you want to support its creator?

I don't like the music my friend makes, but I'll support him by buying his album and sharing it with others who might like it more.

Re: Flattr is closing down (2023)

#160

Post by bigbluedots »

stonogo wrote: post #107
bigbluedots wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, hear me out: Here is how to remove all unwanted ads from the Internet. ISPs move to subscription-based billing - a flat base fee to cover their own costs and some profit, plus a 'content' fee that is divided among the sites visited and the bandwidth used. The 'content' fee goes to a global rights association that distributes it to creators.

Why is the answer to "how to remove ads" always "track the hell out of everyone at some other layer"

If such a scheme we're to compensate content creators there'd have to be some way to determine how to slice up the revenue for them. Hits and data is one way. Your ISP probably already does that - at least re sites visited and data used.
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