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What happened to the US machine tool industry?

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Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#51

Post by jacquesm »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #34
cantrevealname wrote: post #9

> Consider a company that manufactures its product on lathes. Assume that it has ten lathes that can just meet production requirements. Assume also that each lathe wears out in ten years and that the company has its investment plans so well organized that one lathe is replaced every year. Now consider what will happen if there is a 10 percent increase in demand for the product. The plant will need eleven lathes to me…

Well, it's a 100% increase from that company , for one year . The next year, though, they only need to buy one lathe again. And the next year, and the year after that. Every tenth year, they'll buy two lathes. Calling that a 100% increase doesn't seem to make sense because it actually doesn't make sense.

Yes, and there even is such a thing as equipment lease for companies that are liquidity constrained to be able to move to match the market even if their short term reserves would stop them from doing so otherwise. At a price, of course.

The most asked question about the CNC gear we sold was whether or not it could be leased and whether we could offer financing. Almost none of it was bought outright.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#53

Post by hasty_pudding »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #42

> Constant pressure to hit quarterly performance targets meant that machine quality often suffered. In some cases, machines would be shipped out the door unfinished so the delivery could be booked, and assembly would be completed by service technicians at the customer’s location. In his history of the American machine tool industry, Albert Albrecht states that “the actions of these larger corporations and conglomerat…

> In short, the MBAs happened

This describes many many things in the USA.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#54

Post by maxglute »

specialist wrote: post #45
edgyquant wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the answer to all American manufacturing woes. The dollar as a reserve currency gives the US a ton of global leverage but requires a trade deficit thus it comes at the expense of domestic industries.

I'd love to understand statements like this. Lemme try: Because trade deficits induce demand for dollars? Like how Japan and now China hold a bajillion US dollars? So if the US had (prolonged) trade surplus, no one would be holding dollars? But wouldn't trade partners still need US dollars to buy US goods? Like the situation post-WWII? So then we'd "loan" partners US dollars to buy our stuff? Aiugh. My brain just bro…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#55

Post by PeterisP »

cpursley wrote: post #36
ChumpGPT wrote: post #8

[flagged]

[flagged]

The equivalency would be if there were weapons of e.g. some Iranian company sold to Israel and used against Gaza.

As a US company, Haas has a duty to obey US-ordered sanctions and ensure that their products are not being used against the interests of USA, but it has no duty to ensure that their products are not used against interests of Gaza.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#56

Post by adolph »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #42

> Constant pressure to hit quarterly performance targets meant that machine quality often suffered. In some cases, machines would be shipped out the door unfinished so the delivery could be booked, and assembly would be completed by service technicians at the customer’s location. In his history of the American machine tool industry, Albert Albrecht states that “the actions of these larger corporations and conglomerat…

Agreed and to clarify:

> everything in inches, foot pounds, and what not doesn't translate very well internationally when you start outsourcing

It translates pretty well for the last 90 years:

In 1930, the British Standards Institution adopted an inch of exactly 25.4 mm. The American Standards Association followed suit in 1933. By 1935, industry in 16 countries had adopted the "industrial inch" as it came to be known, effectively endorsing Johansson's pragmatic choice of conversion ratio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch

See also the paragraph above referencing the precision tools enabled by Swede Carl Johansson's "Jo Blocks." For a nice video/contextual storytelling, see Machine Learning channel's Origins of Precision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRnrn5DE58

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#57

Post by KevinMS »

cantrevealname wrote: post #9

> Consider a company that manufactures its product on lathes. Assume that it has ten lathes that can just meet production requirements. Assume also that each lathe wears out in ten years and that the company has its investment plans so well organized that one lathe is replaced every year. Now consider what will happen if there is a 10 percent increase in demand for the product. The plant will need eleven lathes to me…

Do lathes actually wear out? Machine tools are built like tanks and could probably last until the end of time, you just need to replace the bearings and motors occasionally.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#59

Post by barelyauser »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #26

1. lack of stable production lines due to real-estate securitization and zoning. i.e. it is a huge liability to install something expensive likely to break if moved, and burning capital in a sucker lease. 2. lack of cheap 3-phase power in said zoning, and aging power infrastructure. EVs will likely make the problem worse. 3. lack of skilled labor due to career churn from outsourcing. i.e. it became a demand-deficient…

Value blindness is the bane of my existence. Thin walled plastic everywhere. Things are difficult to clean because they are filled with grooves, because you need grooves and bends to make thin walled plastic stiffer. A very good criteria for quality and value is: how easy is it to clean? If it is hard then you probably are dealing with a low value disposable product. Consider porcelain, lasts forever, cleans beautifully and does not stain. Or spoons made with solid stainless steel. Spoons made with thin sheet steel often have bends and corners as to make the thin sheet stiffer. But then dirt accumulates on these corners.

Re: What happened to the US machine tool industry?

#60

Post by cpursley »

PeterisP wrote: post #55
cpursley wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The equivalency would be if there were weapons of e.g. some Iranian company sold to Israel and used against Gaza. As a US company, Haas has a duty to obey US-ordered sanctions and ensure that their products are not being used against the interests of USA, but it has no duty to ensure that their products are not used against interests of Gaza.

This I totally agree with (US companies should abide by US law). It's the moralizing that gets under my skin.
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